why did this series disappear? I would love a new wizardry game. my only stipulation would be it needs to have yamada akihiro or yoshitaka amano style artwork.
what's up with the rapid fire shit threads today
>>3456314IIRC it's Sir-Tech intellectual property, but Sir-Tech has been defunct for decades so the franchise is stuck in licensing hell.
>>3456314Don't the japs make like a new one of these every month?
>>3456327lame>>3456329iirc the last game was labyrinth of lost souls on the ps3 and they have just been putting out mobile tier remakes since. >>3456316I think your on the wrong board >>>/lgbt/
>>3456314>I would love a new wizardry gamewhy? what do you want from them besides the name?
>>3456314Just play grimrock or grimoireYeah they're not the same but what can you do
>>3456395wizardry jp>wizardry
>>3456314RPGs, both in Japan and in the west have completely abandoned the Dungeon crawling paradigm.Heavy emphasis on storytelling is the new thing, compelling character arcs, cinematic cutscnes etc. You even see that in modern traditional forms of RPGs ie ttrpgs.That said, its not exactly over as well. Many successors for Wizardry have popped up and some are still release, such Etrian Odyssey. Its not the same thing, but It shows that the genre still appeal to some people.I think a revival is emminent, It Will come some day, many wizardry-likes have Begin to pop up in western indie scene and such, so its only time until one escapes into mainstream. Might take some time though
>>3456336>iirc the last game was labyrinth of lost souls on the ps3Prisoners of the Lost City came out after Labyrinth of Lost Souls. Alas, it remains Japan exclusive. Also, there was that roguelike spinoff, and the now-defunct MMO. Then, there's the updated The Five Ordeals with the all new scenario that wasn't in the original version. And, we are still awaiting Variants Daphne.
>>3456316kill yourself
again, what do you want from a wizardry game besides the name? it's pointless. can you tards just let go of a franchise for once in your life?
>>3456989wizardry is a pretty specific dungeon crawler. Not even recentish games like Grimrock capture it well.Have you even ever played wizardry?
>>3456997grimrock has nothing to do with wizardry at all, it's a dungeon master clone and real time. i've been playing wizardry games since 1993, which is why i'm asking you to tell me specifically what you want from a "wizardry" game now that it's just a name and some flavour attached to drpgs.
>>3457004NTA but nips treated wizardry better than the west, like most things fantasy nowadays.That evil fuck you difficulty and kino pixel art on the snes was something memorable still.>it's cursed, fuck you>dive in this magick pool, maybe you're fucked, or maybe you'll be made a godGrimrock is legit but idk there was something there with its own style.I'm not masochistic enough to forgo automapping though, my time has an actual monetary value in the real world.There's definitely an 'alone against the mad dungeon that barely makes sense' vibe that is fun in these which is missing from overwrought VN in crpg that have a tabletop mode sometimes attached.You have to lean into that vibe instead of try to straddle the difference with loli bullshit.Eye of the beholder was also refined DM but also had this vibe.Ravenloft successfully put that vibe into a rudimentary open world (lol in crawler) beginnings.It was going somewhere, but casuals got thrown off the track mid ride.
>>3456465Man, coming from someone for whom wizardry 6/7 was the peak of the franchise, this is such a weird sentiment to me. The jp wizardry games after 8 (not their ports, their ports of the first few wizardry games to various consoles are actually excellent and in many cases better than the originals) feel like they're stuck in the past. Like the devs are devoid of any creativity, don't know how to recreate the magic and feeling behind 6/7, and kept remaking the first 5 sans 4 over and over again because it's easy and requires no real thought.
>>3457116Oops, forgot to add in my post. Tired. Grimoire definitely feels like the spiritual successor I always wanted to 7 but never got. Really scratched that itch I felt for a similar game. Looking forward to replaying it in another few years once it fades a bit from my mind and some point after I replay 6/7 again to better compare them. I enjoyed grimrock 1/2 for what they were, successor to a different franchise, but I don't like square dancing. Was never a huge fan of DM either. But they were fun. Not sure what else to look forward to in the genre. Mystic lands is coming out at some point and looks like it could be good. There's a few indie titles I've been following on and off on the codex but I doubt they'll be complete within a few years.
>>3456368It's still the same old story:>I want gaem like old but nu!>$current_year>noooooo!!!!
Just play Etrian Odyssey, old SMT, or the Dark Spire.Or if you want something more experimental try these indie DRPGs, they both have demos.https://store.steampowered.com/app/1601280/Potato_Flowers_in_Full_Bloom/https://store.steampowered.com/app/1768650/Path_of_the_Abyss/
>>3456314Wizardry 6-7-8 tried to be different just for the sake of it ruining everything Thankfully japs knpw what REAL wizardry is about so you get jap sequels and spiritual successors like ElminageThe problem is the west doesn't cares about drpgs, they want quirky characters to have gay sex with since the IE games ruined wrpgs and their communities forever
>>3456327>IIRC it's Sir-Tech intellectual propertyWrong, the IP was bought shortly after Sir-Tech's death, problem is it kept passing through various hands and it's currently in Drecom's hands, which is not what you'd call a good situation.
>>3459385>Wizardry 6-7-8 tried to be different just for the sake of it ruining everythingholy cope, but>conflating 8 with 6 and 7retard
>>3459432You can ignore his opinion safely, he sounds like the kind of anon with identity politics brain rot that has never actually played the games he considers "based"
>>3457004>which is why i'm asking you to tell me specifically what you want from a "wizardry" game now that it's just a name and some flavour attached to drpgsIts a shitpost thread to posture and pretend the bradley games don't exist. (while never playing any wizardry games, including the original trilogy)
>>34594327-8 went for a shitty wannabe sci fi setting that's impossible to take seriously 6 and 7 are probably among the most ugly looking rpgs ever made too
>>3460072you get on the spaceship at the end of 6, fairly normal to mix sci-fi and fantasy in those days. 7 looks great and even 6 has really nice monster sprites. pleb secondary detected.
>>3460072>7-8 went for a shitty wannabe sci fi setting that's impossible to take seriouslyDo you read, anon? The line between sci-fi and fantasy used to be pretty blurry in old pulp fiction stories when the genre was taking off in the early to mid 1900s. And a lot of fantasy and sci-fi authors took inspiration from that later. I think it's a shame now that people's common impression of what fantasy "should" be always comes down to fake vaguely medieval europe with magic and dragons based on pop culture cliches and tropes.
>>3456314>why did this series disappear?Failed to remain relevant and most of its main drawing points are either too niche or presented in a more palatable manner by others.While it was the biggest pioneer of the dungeon crawler experience, it didn't address the issues of the early games (stuff that might have worked on tabletop rpgs but didn't translate as well to pc games) until many competitors had already stolen a big portion of the pie.The lack of personality by lacking a strong art direction or characters also didn't help so it kinda blended along with its competitors in the casual's eyes.Rpgs eventually moved onto games focused on plot and reactive settings or faster paced action like Diablo so it went from being the biggest rpg to an acquired taste. It also has a hard time getting a revival since Japanese dungeon crawlers inspired by it started doing the same but with a bigger focus on visuals and music.I'd still buy a compilation of these games based on the snes ports or with a similar visual flair day 1 but those interested in the series (much less an actual sequel) are the minority
>>3460072Super famicom wizardry 6 looks great.7 is pretty good looking as well, not sure what you are going on about.About themes, there isnt much to say besides that its a really retarded take. Do you want every fantasy game you play to be yet another D&D clone? 8 sucks, I agree, especially when It comes to aesthetics, and its a whole different game compared to previous entries.
>>3460320>I'd still buy a compilation of these games based on the snes ports or with a similar visual flair day 1 but those interested in the series (much less an actual sequel) are the minorityThis is why the new remake for Wizardry 1 is just nuts to me.>$30 early access>worse aesthetic and visual style than earlier remakes/ports of Wiz1>only wizardry 1, no party export/importWhy someone wouldn't just play one of the other ports with a more consistent, tied together visual style and party export/import for the first 3 games for FREE really blows my mind.
>>3460340Indeed, it feels like something a bedroom developer or small indie team would produce, rather than the remake a classic would get.The cost is too high for something that looks so basic and it is early access so buying it is a coin toss, who knows when it is going to be a finished, well-polished product it ever.It being just the first game is what baffles me the most.
>>3460504Whoever currently owns the rights to Wizardry feels like they're completely devoid of creativity and are just coasting by on the name making the same games over and over again, either as slightly different clones and now as remakes. I think there's a mobile title coming out now too.
>>3456465Actual mentally handicapped opinion. The jap games are nothing but glib facsimiles of the originals, but with worse art.
>>3456465Based>>3463240>worse artNothing can be worse than the ugly fucks you play as in 6 and 7, would rather not a use portrait at all
>>34648147 has good portraits. Have you only played the awful Gold version everyone warned you against?
>>3456465Based busin zero enjoyer.
I love Japanese wizardry
Did someone say a new remake?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbKpViQdyR4
>>3457116>feel like they're stuck in the past. Like the devs are devoid of any creativity, don't know how to recreate the magic and feeling behind 6/7, and kept remaking the first 5 sans 4 over and over again because it's easy and requires no real thought.That's just genuinely Japanese mentality more than anything. When a Japanese man makes a pot, his mindset is turned towards mastery of that pot. He focuses on the flaws that keep it from being the idealized version of what a pot is, then he focuses on remaking that same exact pot without those flaws. He will make 10,000 pots over and over again, just perfecting this one simple design.You can actually see this paradigm a lot in their culture as well. For example, they did the same thing with Lode Runner. While the west started to branch out from the original design by doing things with isometric designs in Lode Runner 2, adding in items and terrain in Lode Runner Returns, or doing 3D levels with Lode Runner 3D, Japan instead kept reproducing the design mechanics of Lode Runner the original, but just made the levels FAR more challenging then their western counterparts, making the far more difficult to complete while still retaining the same concepts. Another non-video game example of this is their Galapagos Phone. I think recently the trend began reversing itself, but even as far as 2017, Japan had been developing and innovating on flip phone designs instead of switching over to the iPhone/Android smart phone designs, creating uniquely advanced flip phones that probably would have been insane had they been produced in 2005. But they just focused on improving the ONE thing, including its core ideas, over and over again.
>>3467901Which is a problem when they try to copy and perfect something that wasn't good in the first place, like Western society or corporate structures or rap music.
>>3467909This is true, especially so when the thing they get out of the product is not the particular thing that I like from it, and they improve on that. Like the fact that Compile Hearts tends to heavily focus onthe combat alone, with very little to do with actual dungeon exploring, which is the part I'm more interested in.However, the Western mentality of "solve the problems with a new design" can also lead to issues as well. For example, if you really look into the game design through the ages and ask the same questions they ask, you can actually clearly see the real reason why adventure games "died out". They didn't die, they actually just turned into movie games and walking simulators.Text Based Adventure Games:>Gee, I can't see shit. It's hard to imagine.Graphics Based Adventure Games:>I'm still fighting with the interpreter. It never understands me.Classic Sentence-Constructed Adventure Games:>There are way too many verbs! I never know what the game wants!9-Verb Adventure Games:>I mean, honestly, I only really want to interact with certain objects in certain ways.3-Symbol Dial AG:>Can't I just click on the object and it knows what I want?Context-Sensitive PnC:>I just want to walk up to non-hidden items and click on them, and the story moves forward. Why am I still pointing and clicking?Games with adventure elements (like Survival Horror)>Why am I carrying all this crap around? Let me just talk to them and solve it."Mystery" Games like Heavy Rain>In fact, let me make all my choices matter. I don't want game overs.Walking Dead-style Visual NovelsIt's a long chain, but nobody noticed that we went from incredibly tough puzzle games that involved heavy documentation and mapping, exploration, and intentionality, to literal movies, because we just kept innovating things over and over again until nobody wants to even think about another Zork.
>>3467943Oh, I agree. Progress for progress's sake isn't good. But Wizardry 7 really was better than earlier Wizardries. I think there really is a degree of just not liking change that leads to a rejection of real improvement that doesn't destroy essence.
>>3460244There's nothing wrong with wanting to have pure versions of either, with the magical/fantasy settings having completely different laws governing reality. But the approach of "magic really is sufficiently advanced technology" and "grugs wearing hides and swinging crude axes is a result of somewhat recent civilizational collapse" definitely has a right to exist too.Real variety is always good.
What is best way to play wizardry I-IV? I heard the snes and psx ports change a lot from the original apple II games. I want to play the versions that the closest to the original quadrilogy.
>>3468208The PSX versions don't change much from the originals, in fact they're mostly ports of one of the Japanese PC releases. The biggest difference is just having auto-mapping (which you can off if you want).
>>3467943RPGs too went into the exact same direction really. They got so oversimplified that many recent rpgs are simply big numbers go up story driven light novels.
>>3466609Is it good?
>>3468263I always find it funny when people say JRPGs are just VNs when one of the most popular and well-regarded WRPGs in the past 5 years is Disco Elysium, a game with no combat that is really just a VN with dice rolls.
>>3468507Oh no, I was not by ALL means implying that this is exclusive to jrpgs. Disco elysium is in fact probably one of the worst offenders, and perfectly fits into my description. Its a light novel with dice Rolls for padding
>>3468581Once again I wrote light novel but what I actually meant to say in both replies was visual novel. I know the contexto implied that It was a mistake, but It good to correct nonetheless.
>>3456395Played Grimrock, but what's "grimoire"?
>>3468594Grimoire is a shitposr, the dev is more interesting than the game
>>3468581>Oh no, I was not by ALL means implying that this is exclusive to jrpgs.I wasn't implying that you wereI like Disco (probably because I enjoy VNs) but WRPGs honestly seem to focus more on narrative over gameplay than JRPGs these days. Modern RPGs also have the problem of focusing way too much on romance, but I guess it's popular so it's what sells, like BG3 and Persona 5. I guess the main problem is that these days RPGs only sell super well when the RPG part is downplayed for something else, like the romance stuff in BG3, Persona 5, or any Bioware game.
>>3468609What a retarded thing to say. It's a full Wiz 7 clone.
>>3468609t. Sape
Wizardry started getting good with 6
>>3462927>I think there's a mobile title coming out now too.It's a fucking NFT game too.
>>3467901That's certainly and interesting way to think about it. Haven't looked at it that way before and it would explain a lot.>>3468238>>3468208The PSX version (Llyllgamyn saga) is superb. Minimal changes, option for better graphics that still fit aesthetically and feel good, all 3 games with export/import party features on one disc. >>3468077>There's nothing wrong with wanting to have pure versions of either, with the magical/fantasy settings having completely different laws governing reality. Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. I wouldn't bash a fantasy setting for not having sci-fi elements and vice versa. I just think pure fantasy (as envisioned by the west, aping vaguely medieval Europe) is way too oversaturated at the moment. I know it's debatable but imo Wiz 6/7 would be worse off as pure fantasy. As far as dungeon crawlers go the setting was very unique compared to its competitors.>>3468609Grimoire is probably the best spiritual successor to Wiz 6/7 that we're ever going to see. The market is way too niche for anyone barring serious autists to invest that much time and effort into making a similar game that even comes close.
>>3460072>uglyanon get yer eye's checked out RIGHT NOW m8 their sprites aged great!
>>3469524That's not how these games look like on crts and the shaders available on the net don't make it look right either
>>3469495>I just think pure fantasy (as envisioned by the west, aping vaguely medieval Europe) is way too oversaturated at the moment.True. I have a hunch that it mostly stems from the people making them today not caring in the least for as long as they get their paycheck. In the bygone times it was nerds who also wanted to make a living from their passion.
Did Might & Magic ever make it to nipland? How was the reception?
>>3471138I'm not super familiar with M&M, but I know the first 3 games got console ports and the first 5 games had Japanese PC ports, and VIII even got a Japan-only PS2 port. It also looks like all of VI onward got official Japanese language releases but they're hard to find like Japanese versions of any late 90s to mid 2000s CRPGs.From what I can roughly gather, it seems like the I & II were pretty popular at the time, just below early Wizardry and Ultima. III to V seem less so, I'm guessing because it changed the gameplay a lot and the more "Western-looking" artstyle was more upfront, but they were still decently popular in the Japanese PC space at the time. But VI onward seems to be outright obscure unless you were a hardcore westaboo RPG fan.
>>3471381MM VIII actually has a Japanese exclusive ps2 port that adds a short tutorial to the game. No idea how popular it was though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rImuCcgsEx0
>>3469524Literally just 2 pictures in and it's already ugly as fuck
>>3471381I know MM1 had a Very competent and good looking port to NES, If that is any indicative.
>>3471851You have the taste of a white woman. Back to moviegames with you
>>3469524This is awful.
>>3469524It looks really bad compared to Might and Magic 3 which was released less than a year later.
>>3469524The sprites aren't bad, but the limited palette did them no favours and the background dungeon being featureless grey walls was mindnumbing. It was liked in spite of its graphics. Wizardry 7 looked pretty good though.
>>3472091Wizardry 6 on the Super Famicom looks great too, If that is such a big deal for this anon
>>3472091Let's try that again, didn't realize mobygames was resizing it.
>>3471515>adds a short tutorial to the gameWhy? Dagger Wound Island is a giant tutorial until you get means of reaching the two higher level/threat islands not connected by portals. And you can still rush one of them very early on if you're good at the games.
>>3472094Wizardry 7 does look way way better, despite this it's still has its graphical issues>we've upgraded from one generic background to FOUR whole backgrounds>every area is either a city with yellow bricks, a forest, a cave or a dungeon>game is like three times the size of 6 so they get old pretty fast>unlike wizardry 6, it has less enemy sprites for some reason so they reuse the ones they do have far more often and with no palette swapping>there's fucking 15 absolutely visually identical rat enemies in the gameGraphics were never the series' strong suit. Even 8 had hilariously outdated blocky graphics when it released in 2001.
the japanese wizardry 7 port on PSX looks cursed as fuckhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltlQfsqcIU4
>>3457117I've never finished a single Wizardry game but I really enjoyed Grimoire. It reminded me a lot of Might and Magic but just a bit more complex. People meme on Cleve but it's a genuinely good game and a pretty good newbie introduction to 90s dungeon crawlers.
>>3474621>PSXjust like the ultia underworld port that the west never got!
>>3474621Japanese wizardry games whole approach of making their wiz games "real" 3D but with a mix of 2D sprites and 3D assets feels so garish.
Wizardry: The Five Ordeals seems kind of cool so far.
I'm still holding on to my wizardry 8 saves. I just know that 9 is gonna come out any day now!
>Variants Daphne never ever
>>3457771I enjoyed the Dark Spire, but I really disliked how they limited you to 4 party members and still maintained fairly firm niche protection which I suppose why you get multi-class unlocks later on.One of my favorite things about Wizardry is having that bit of slack that allows me to customize my party without dropping a really important skill set.>>3456591It's less of a "dungeon crawling paradigm" and more they've basically cut off so much compelling but unstated gameplay (map making, note taking, resource management through encumbrance, quest journals/markers, etc) and cut the need for any of those for "QoL" that basically renders the stated gameplay/mechanics as boring.Which is why they started opting for mechanical complexity/synergy like a deck building game like MtG. Hell, even DQ stopped being a proper RPG in the spirit of Ultima after the first game. Their environments are effectively hallways that you can now map a story/dramatic outcomes on to.I still think Ultima is the ultimate synthesis of RPG mechanics married to an adventure game (Zork, Colossal Cave Adventure, etc) structure. Anyway, play Nox Archaist.
>>3475385The Children of Selune was a DOPE scenario. I like Wizardry scenarios with believable map designs, way less interested in convoluted paths unless they're trying to map a cave system or something else that makes sense. Selune feels like you are actually exploring a castle.
>>3468679They're good games, but I hate that they redesigned the "qualifier" classes like Lord, Ninja, Bishop as orthogonal to the starter classes and introduced a bunch of furry races.Wizardry 4 is still the best scenario. I made a WERDNA LIVES patch for my TTRPG book bag for when I run games at the FLGS and some old-timers recognized it.
>>3477242>furry racesyou can't really fault oldschool games for this kind of thing. this is before furries were a thing, when animal people was just something cool and not a sexual fetish for creeps.
>>3477286I blame the influence of SW personally and how popular genre-mashing was during the late 80's/90's. Wizardry 6 onwards had heavy sci-fi elements thrown in and I kind of think that races like the Mook, Dracon, Felpurr, etc were analogs of SW species or at least meant to sign post a more sci-fi bent. I mean, sci-fi was present in D&D for decades prior (Expedition to Barrier Peaks, Tekumel, etc) but I'm more noting that Wizardry had a decidedly sci-fi bent from 6 onwards compared to the earlier games.
>>3477298Yes, nerds were actually nerds back then and we didn't mind our peas touching our mashed potatoes. They just wanted a reason to take your party to another planet and show that creatures all over the universe, like the spidermen T'Rang and the Rhino Umpani, were interested in the Cosmic Forge. Felpurr and Rawulf and Dracon are just cat/dog/dragon/ people, which were standard scifi and fantasy fare in the early 90s. Just like how the Kilrathi in Wing Commander were based on the Kzin from the Niven books. Cartoons and comics were unknowingly twisting people's sexuality even then, for sure, but it wasn't like Furcadia had been created and entered nerd perception yet.
>>3477242>Wizardry 4 is still the best scenario. I made a WERDNA LIVES patch for my TTRPG book bag for when I run games at the FLGS and some old-timers recognized it.>mfw I share the board with cenobites>mfw I have no face
>>3477424What does this even mean anon?
>>3456314Cool cover
>>3476900it's dead jim RIP BRAD!
>>3456395>grimoire
>>3482257the eye people look kinda cool
>Wizardry thread>It's not about wizardry at all and it's just a bunch of fat brazilian nintoddlers copingOkay then
If you're looking for more Wizardry-style dungeon crawling, Dungeon & Bride AKA Cuckshed RPG is coming out hopefully this year.
Are any of the Wizardry 8 mods worth playing? I wanna replay the game again, but with a twist since it's become a bit stale.
>>3484257I can tolerate tentacle rape to play autism squad builder Venusblood, but I won't tolerate NTR
>>3475370>Japanese wizardry games whole approach of making their wiz games "real" 3D but with a mix of 2D sprites and 3D assets feels so garish. It's very jarring due to the visual contrast. Same with those "remasters" which use basic-bitch sprites over hi-def backgrounds, giving the whole game a "cardboard cut-out on static diorama" feel (like those fold-out playbooks from 30+ years ago).
>>3485026I'm definitely not a fan of either of those.
>>3472379>Even 8 had hilariously outdated blocky graphics when it released in 2001. That was more due to the extreme pace of 3D acceleration improvement than anything. A lot of games who started development circa '98 ended up looking like utter ass when released in 2001. Wiz 8 wasn't an outlier. Even the original release of Morrowind had pretty ugly-looking textures and characters/objects, especially if you had to reduce effects/details to make it run on a less-capable system. Regarding Wiz 6, specifically, it only supported up to EGA (with its ugly-ass CGA-derived neon-bright palette), whereas M&M3 (and Wiz 7) supported VGA, which offers a far wider/better choice of hues.
>>3484257God, it's so fucking ugly.
Has anyone beaten one of these?
>>3487555yes. hall of gorrors in wiz 7 is far harder.
What's the best Wizardry game to get into it?
>>3488353Depends entirely on you and your tolerances for old game jank/graphics/consoleshit/difficulty.
>>3488355I should have clarified, I have a large tolerance and specifically want one of the older ones
>>3488662Just play the first one and go in order. I recommend the PS1 ports of 1 to 5.
>>3488265I tried going for Beast of a 1000 eyes with my shitty lvl 20-ish party and got wiped. lul
>>3456465>wizardry jp>wizardrythat's just like saying Wiz1-5 > Wiz6-8Which is a highly questionable opinion.
>>3456465>japanese are the only ones who make wizardry games cause of a quirk of copyright>they're all based on 1-3+5 instead of 6-8F
>>3492674Try Elminage original and Gothic, Im sure you will enjoy It even If 7 is what you consider the best.And honestly, 8 kind of sucks, and 6 is a Dungeon crawler through and through, not much different from 1-5 in that sense
>>3492682Adding to my reply, I have to admit Elminage is perhaps one of the very few good Wizardry-likes japanese devs have ever released.
>>3492682Elminage is still fundamentally rooted in the classic Wizardry formula, while it does take some elements from the Dark Savant trilogy it doesn't really follow the same design structure, even if it does have really great dungeon design and class balance for the most part.Elminage at its core is still largely about dungeon crawling, the Dark Savant games tried to integrate a broader system of roleplaying mechanics, 7 and 8 especially focus a lot on having a more interactive and expanded setting compared to previous games, Elminage doesn't really do any of that, it's still largely about self contained dungeons with a set of world hubs.Which is good if you ask me since Dark Savant games end up being way too unfocused and finnicky, but I don't think Anon will like Elminage coming from those.
>>3492727Well, since he mentioned 6 as well, I had the impression Elminage might have been fitting. It really doesnt emphasize roleplaying, but It offers much more variety than the original five wizardry games.
>>3492682>>3492684>>3492727>>3492732I have tried playing Elminage Gothic (haven't played Original) and mechanically it felt a lot like the first couple of wizardries, so while it was alright I lost interest in it pretty quickly. Pure dungeon crawling isn't really a problem for me, That's why I loved 6 and 7. Hell I would even consider 8 as being a ''dungeon'' crawler of sorts since it is still like 99% combat 1% everything else. Compare it to say something like MM6-8 where half the game is pretty standard rpg town interactions and quests.
alchemy >>>divinity >wizardry >>psionics
>>3493519>alchemy>no party wide buffslol
>>3492844I think a lot of Elminage's charm comes partly from being almost exactly the same as the Llylgamyn games but with a lot more polish, partly due to the fact that while it is fundamentally offbrand Wizardry I-V it still tries to experiment a lot in the limits of that formula and still tries to implement a lot of things from the Dark Savant trilogy, but in the spirit of the classic games.For instance, the Summoner class in Elminage is more or less Werdna+, you get to bind whatever you want in your cantrips as long as you pass the contract check, then you can choose to play as the "standard" summoner, which is basically just somebody who slaps any enemy in the game in the seventh party slot, or you go deeper in the rabbit hole and choose to turn whatever enemy you bound to your cantrip as a legitimate party member, which in turn allows you to sorta turn the game into a soft Wizardry IV spinoff where you can have a party full of whatever monsters or enemy adventurers you come across.Alchemists don't really work like Wiz8 alchemists even if there's some surface level similarities in their spellbooks, although Elminage Alchemists are fundamentally debuffers and status inflictors, and even their use of alchemy is completely different.In Elminage alchemy is largely done at shops and Herbalists/Servants are the ones who mix your potions, Elminage Alchemists instead focus on creating alchemical tools that give you specific utilities both inside and outside of battles, such as the Air Seed which allows you to breathe underwater and not get instakilled if you're walking near water tile and some enemy chooses to drag you underwater, they also allow you to upgrade your equipment and create cool stuff like weapons that get racial modifiers to hit much harder against some enemies.As I said, it's hard to recommend them to anyone who prefers the Dark Savant games, so I don't really blame you for losing interest so quickly.
For me it's the PK Crystal.
Is Grimoire worth playing?
>>3495581Worth what?
Neat, a Wizardry thread. I just started the SNES trilogy, first time playing any of the games.Haven't gotten past floor 1 yet, just started the game. Any opinions on which are better (or just more fun) between Lords and Ninjas? I'm early on enough that I don't mind restarting, I've only really had one play session so far and that was mostly figuring out the basics.
>>3467909> like Western societyBetter than whatever shithole society you prefer over it, guaranteed.
>>3496366>I just started the SNES trilogyDon't do that, play the dos or ps1 version
>>3495581Did you play wiz 7 to completion? If not then no.
>>3496575>Did you play wiz 7 to completion?I have with an imported party from 6. Which means it's time to try it out I guess.
>>3496573I don't have a preferred society. Critique isn't comparative endorsement, brainlet.
How is the nu-wizardry music? Any /vrpg/erdicts?
>>3496366>>3496574If you are going to play the dos version keep I recommend either saves scuming a set amount of times on level ups or manually editing the stats on level up(correct formula is, for each stat, 25% chance nothing happens else if character age is less than random(1, 130) the stat goes up, but not beyond 18, and otherwise it goes down unless it was already at 18 in which case their is a 5/6 chance nothing happens anyways) with something like wherearewe(you can also use wherearewe to autoroll high stats during character creation but I recommend mapping by hand since it gives more info that you could fairly have) because the stat growth is bugged so that your stats are as likely to go down as to go up in the dos version.
>>3456314Because no one wants to play lame, bare bones boomer trash. It's a dead genre, like shmups.
>>3496574Faggot detected. It is the best version of 1-3 with the psx version being second. Dos and the original Apple versions are buggy as fuck. But, Apple ii version does have a bugfix mod and multiple new stuff mods which make it a very interesting version to play.
>>3496366Lords. Ninjas take extremely high levels for their no-weapon-or-armor benefits to really kick in, while having the slowest EXP curve of all classes. I think one's only really worth using if you get one of those super rare knives in the first game that let's you instantly change a Thief to a Ninja without level or stat resets, and even works on Neutral Thieves so you can use a Ninja in a Good party. Lords on the other hand are just generally useful in an obvious and unexciting way. They're literally just better Fighters with Priest spells, meaning more healing and the occasional instant-kill against some enemies.
damn this drops and then skald comes out next week, never should have registered for summer classes
Are there any good portrait packs for Wizardry 8?
what do the jap wizardry enthusiasts think of this one? never seen it mentioned. Was considering emulating.
>>3498601i played it on an emulator once like ten years ago for maybe an hour and forgot about it. wiz 6-8 always had some kind of story, that just seemed like an aimless grinder, but like i said didn't put much time into it. if you played all the main wizardry games, try nemesis, it's better than the jap ones, though idiosyncratic cuz it's solo with one dude no party. still kinda fun and has those awkward but endearing pre-rendered "3d" graphics that were popular for maybe a year in the mid-90s.
>>3498601>jap wizardry enthusiastsDoesn't exist. The entire premise of this thread is based on a belief by a retard who hasn't played ANY of the games. Stop looking for games that you think look shiny and play the actual series proper. The right way to approach the series has been posted billions of times in the past. Nothing you have to ask and none of your opinions are valuable data.
>>3497605>It is the best version of 1-3No it's not, you have never played a single wizardry game. The scenarios aren't even in the correct order.
>>3498712So you start the game with scenario 3 or 2 ?Oh wait, no you don't. You actually start with scenario 1. You wouldn't know that since you never played the game and your only source is a random reddit complainer.
>>3498746The trilogy is arranged as 1, 3, 2. Since the trilogy is designed as a single game where you import characters between each this obviously means significant alterations were made to each scenario. The only 2 versions worth playing are the ps1 version as suggested earlier or the apple II version if you care about the original. (Which you shouldn't because the ps1 version is mechanically identical)This thread is full of retards. Anyone in here should be ignored. Nothing productive will come from this thread, no one in here is going to play anything, it's just a waiting room until the next DRPG slop releases for them to consume.
>>3498751I'm not a retard.
>>3498574I've used this one. https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/wizardry-8-custom-portraits.93860/However, most custom portraits I've encountered weren't good imo. Luckily there are guides to make your own if you want to use specific images.
>>3498700So its pretty typical of games of its type then. 1 man party rpgs always seemed cool to me. Thanks for the input anon.>>3498708Okay so YOUR input is to tell me to play the earlier games in the series? I assume you are the anon deriding this thread as useless. If I'm reading your other post correctly you believe I should play the ps1 remakes of the first 3 games. I will consider such a thing. You're right I thought the game looked neat for what it is. As a part of your suggestion do you believe I should never touch this game or that I should wait until I have played the others? Is there some master recommendation image that gets passed around i've just never had the chance to see or what?
i had make a portrait pack for the first wizardry remake. Those were from 7th dragon 2020-2https://gofile.io/d/dpoefB
>>3499812No thanks, I'll stick to based bird portraits.
>>3498601Most of the Japanese Wizardry games aren't very good. I remember being so excited to play Wizardry 4: Gaiden - Throb of the Demon's Heart because it combined the class system of 6-8 with the gameplay systems of 1-5, but it ended up being a real dud. A couple of the other Japanese Wizardry games really didn't deviate too much from the standard formula; they really were like additional scenarios for 1-3.But Tales of the Forsaken Land really is very good. It takes a lot of the concepts of 1-5 and improves greatly upon them. Spells can be upgraded with materials, meaning that low level spells can remain relevant. Dungeons have fun and interesting events that even change when you return to them. There are quests that keep things fresh and give you objectives for each run. You can get additional player characters who have their own storylines and occasionally chime in with their thoughts - but they're absolutely not mandatory.But the two places the game really stands out are level design and story. It has the best level design of any Wizardry game. It has clever, interesting levels with an emphasis on verticality, far more complex than anything in the mainline series.The other area is story. Believe it or not, this game actually has a very good story. It's unobtrusive and doesn't overstay its welcome, but is thoughtful and interesting whenever it presents itself. It really picks up in the second half of the game. It's not something you have to pay much attention to if you don't want, but it's rewarding if you do and has a kind of strange and interesting twist that really isn't in any other games.So I think it's very worth checking out if you're a Wizardry fan. The other Japanese Wizardry games, not so much, but Tales of the Forsaken Land is very good. There's a sequel called Busin 0, but unfortunately it's not in English, but it looks to be very good as well.
>>3501696>But Tales of the Forsaken Land really is very goodlmao no it isn't you fucking retard
>be digital eclipse>remake wizardry 1>remix the original kentaro haneda ost> do a bunch of cool shit with it> alot of people like the remake> port the remake to ps4 and switch> alot of people liked that>replace the soundtrack with generic medival fantasy slop.mp4> never release the remix ostThey had one job.
>>3501954Yeah, the Kentaro Haneda soundtrack is truly excellent, one of the few game soundtracks I actually own on CD. It's pretty much inseparable from the idea of Wizardry for me. It's the reason why I'll always prefer the SNES trilogy to the Playstation one - because it uses the original soundtrack. The Playstation one still has a Kentaro Haneda soundtrack, but I love the original.
>>3501696Gaiden 4 is mediocre because the whole idea of having 3 dungeons you can do in any order completely fucks the difficulty curve, plus enemies barely use magic or status effects against you as it is. Gaiden 3 and Dimguil are a lot better.
>>3502002Definitely all of those, but it's even more than that, because the game is way too easy even if you do the dungeons in order. The enemies are barely a challenge and don't get much harder as you progress. Like you said, they barely cast, but they also barely do damage. They're just things that occasionally get in the way as you explore.The puzzles are all completely inane and get in the way of exploration. It's like they took the worst aspects of 7's puzzles and condensed them all into a much smaller game. It was just boring, tedious garbage. Too bad the character building system was so fun, because everything else was awful.
>>3502042You can't even really do the dungeons in an order because once you clear one dungeon, the other two get cleaned out of any NPCs or events, so if you want to actually see everything in each dungeon you have to awkwardly stop before the final boss of each one and explore then others. Though you might consider the events getting cleaned out a good things, since yeah, the puzzles got a bit too cute for its own good. Too much running back and forth and carrying a dozen key items.
>>3502050That's really weird. I don't think that happened to me, although I somehow sequence broke in the second dungeon and completely fucked everything up, making it unbeatable. I have no idea what I did.Anyway, the game just sucked.
>>3502052I didn't think the game was that bad in the grand scheme of things, but it sounds like you ran into a lot more trouble getting through it. I looked at Japanese guide early on to see if there was anything major I should know about how the progression works and found out how complicated the it gets including needing items from one dungeon in another, so ended up following internet maps a lot of way, which I would consider a knock against the game that I felt the need to do that but I didn't get stuck. Also, you need a high enough level Bard in the final dungeon in order to beat the game, which wasn't a problem for me since I was going to use one anyway but it's would be pretty annoying if you weren't.If you want to try another game that also does 6-8 classes+races in mostly 5's mechanics, then like I said Gaiden 3 and Dimguil are better games. Gaiden 3 is missing the Psychic and Monk classes and their magic, and Felpurr race for some reason (cartridge space?) but it has a better spell list than 4 with it's only three spells per level thing, and it has a much better dungeon design. The only big complaint I have there's a couple locked doors in the game that you need a high level Thief for to progress. My Bard couldn't pick it, so I ended up just making a Thief and cheating him to a high level so he could unlock this door before being deleted. Dimguil on PS1 has all the good additions and changes from Gaiden 4 with better spell lists, balance, and dungeon design, and it's got kind of a neat story too with some different characters you interact with. Though enemies are pretty easy for the first half of it, but the latter half I thought was a pretty good difficulty though maybe a bit easier than Heart of the Maelstrom.
>>3457771Oh did Abyss finally get english translation?
>>3501954PSX version had the best OST, even if I don't like them changing the iconic battle music.
What is the right way to approach?
>>3501959Is there any place to find the original OST online? I can only find the SNES port's version.
Do you guys think Lord British was right when he sued Falcom and got them to settle out of court?There's a timeline where the Rean game never happened and Garriot prevented it.
>>3502327I've got you covered.Wizardry 1 NEShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOz-R8HBzIWizardry 1 Arrangedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxFhKyOONvc&Wizardry 2 NEShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9zba6EoruYWizardry 2 Arrangedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JKFtOYfCP8Wizardry 3 NEShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AZ2h8DabjYWizardry 3 Arrangedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry4xNBk20iYWizardry 5 Arrangedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-5cy8wmlH4
>>3502342okay but what if I want to listen to the original apple 2 OST
>>3502344You can put your hands over your ears and enjoy the sound of silence.
>>3502350I probably should've looked up gameplay and realized it didn't originally have an OST, whoops.I'm retarded. Was the NES port the first version with music then?
>>3502352yep.
>>3501767explain why it isn't
>>3501767This is one of the worst posts on all of /vrpg/, faggot.
>>3502720>>3502739>>3501696>loved tales of the forsaken land>still no translation for Busin 0 NeoFUCK, there's all kind's of translations happening for much shittier games and this one still hasn't been done
>>3502887There actually is a complete translation guide... every word in the game is translated and presented professionally... in a PDF file.https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/busin-0-wizardry-alternative-neo-translation-guide-included.138022/It's so demoralizing!!!
>>3502720Because it plays nothing like Wizardry, the monster design is lazy, and the maps are terrible. It just plays like a dime a dozen gook step max numbers go up game, so of course a retard like you would gravitate to it. It's like you're only here to be dissapointing, guess this genre should have been gatekept harder. I would be less dissapointed if you cut off your dick and pretended to be a woman instead. Every single time you underage retards fail to meet expectations and seek the easiest shittiest most casual way to participate in discussion.
>>3502943Hmmm, I feel like>>3501696This guy makes a more convincing case. You explained nothing and flailed disastrously. Next!
>>3502994Why make a wizardry thread if you have zero desire to play wizardry
Playing a computer game on a controller feels awful.
>>3477237>I still think Ultima is the ultimate synthesis of RPG mechanics married to an adventure game (Zork, Colossal Cave Adventure, etc) structure.I agree with this, and I feel like the only RPG that attempted to continue moving along these lines was, incredibly enough, RuneScape. But it was also saddled with the problems that come from being an MMO
>>3503002Runescape is really bad though, the quests and puzzles are just designed to be annoying time wasters, which is why people use plugins to circumvent them.
>>3503007That’s not true in the least. RS players use plug-ins because 90% of them nowadays are numbers-go-up addicts
>>3503008No, it's a very sensible thing to do when facing those awful fetch quests with their bad jokes.>nowadaysIt's the foundation of the game.
>>3502996I've played them all. Many different versions. The Playstation 2 Wizardry is quite good - better than most of the mainline games - and offers a lot of very fun and interesting improvements. Something the guy didn't mention was the united attack ability that scales with party trust. It makes combat much more interesting and tactical than "attack" "attack" "attack" "tiltowait" "tiltowait" "tiltowait'.
>>3503011Fetch quests? I’m beginning to doubt you even no what you’re talking about
>>3503012Doesn't sound appealing or particularly innovative. Next!>better than most of the mainline gamesVery low bar.
>>3503014Anon, most quests involved running back and forth. I'm beginning to think you are retarded.
>>3503018As opposed to what, quests that take place in a single location?I’ve never seen someone use the descriptor “fetch quest” for a quest simply because it requires travel. It’s broadly understood that a fetch quest is when where you’re tasked with simply collecting a certain amount of items or defeating a certain amount of enemies. And RuneScape does have a few like that, but they are all simple, beginner quests. Most aren’t like that.
>>3503012>I've played them all. Many different versions. The Playstation 2 Wizardry is quite good - better than most of the mainline gamesYou definitely didn't and you are doing the mainline series a serious disservice. Genuinely depressing.
>>3503022No, "fetch quest" is also used when you are sent from one place to another repetitively by NPCs. This is the majority of Runescape quests.
>>3503012Vertical ability progression completely missed the point of what wizardry is doing and it already has vancian magic and later seperate elemental magic pools to circumvent this. Spamming your ultimate ability comes at a cost, and being able to do it consistently signifies a shift into a different mode of end game play. Maybe you just don't like dungeon crawlers.
>>3503017It's very good, and at the time there was nothing else like it. I'm not aware of any other similar systems - maybe others have done it. Either way, it is far more meaningful and strategic to choose to have party members cover each other or interrupt certain enemy attacks or attack a column than to choose pierce or swing.It ultimately boils down to greater strategic option, and those options grow as you build trust among party members. It's very good. Wizardry 1-8 have good combat. This has good combat too.>>3503025I have. I've beaten them all - some of them multiple times. You don't need to samefag to manufacture consensus. Going forward in this conversation, let's take everything at face value - otherwise we can't have a productive conversation.>>3503031Maybe. Are you referring to the ability to strengthen lower level spells? Okay. Some Wizardry games have one system, other Wizardry games have other systems. In Wizardry 6-8, you can strengthen spells by increasing the amount of MP you put into it. In Tales of the Forsaken Land, you can strengthen spells by using materials. It's good to have a spellbook full of lots of useful spells rather than 2 or 3. It's no fun when characters are only their highest spell level.
>>3503027Is Pirate’s Treasure a fetch quest because you have to go to Karamja, then back to Port Sarim, then to Varrock, then to Falador? Is Black Knight’s Fortress a fetch quest because you have to go back and forth twice? You sound like those people who say that if a quest doesn’t have a designated quest area with all of the necessary things to complete the quest right there, then it’s bad design. But following that design principle is who we end up with theme park RPGs
>>3503040>greater strategic option>It's very good.Sounds vague and not particularly descriptive. Next!
>>3503043>Is Pirate’s Treasure a fetch quest because you have to go to Karamja, then back to Port Sarim, then to Varrock, then to Falador? Is Black Knight’s Fortress a fetch quest because you have to go back and forth twice? Yes, and Regicide. Now you know. These quests are knowingly designed around "how long will a player take to complete them", with the focus on making it take as long as they can possibly get away with. This is why players circumvent this awful design with plugins, not "numbers go up autism".
>>3503044I gave 3 examples. You're just baiting and shitposting, but for the people interested, here's the complete list.https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/472311-wizardry-tale-of-the-forsaken-land/faqs/15494In the "Allied Actions" section, there are a few dozen of the multi-character attacks you can do.
>>3503046Do you think that quests like Recruitment Drive or Elemental Workshop II are better just because they aren’t like that?
>>3503053Yes, relatively, but Mourning's End Part II is awful.
>>3503040>In Wizardry 6-8, you can strengthen spells by increasing the amount of MP you put into itBut to utilize this you have to study the enemy and record their exp thresholds and what level of spell to use to be efficient. This isn't how your game works. You don't want to think.
>>3503065it’s a matter of taste then, I suppose. I think Elemental Workshop II is really boring and throws out everything that makes RuneScape unique. If I wanted to play a puzzle game, I’d play a puzzle game
>>3503075I mean, I don't think it's good either, just "better". Runescape is awful in general, it's like a psychological torture device aimed at children.
>>3502932>It's so demoralizing!!!I know!!! I truly appreciate the translation but constantly tabbing or looking at a second monitor would ruin it for me unfortunately.
i'm new, currently playing Wizardry Llylgamyn Saga Scenario 1 (PSX) and have a lvl 13 mage that i can turn into a thief, will he keep half of the spell slots if i turn him into a thief or does it not work that way in this game?if it does work that way, i might make my other mage into a Lord.
>>3503304nevermind, just made a save and checked. the slots come back once you level up.
