how is this considered one of the hardest games ever? I beat it as a dumbass kid. even revenge of shinobi is harder same with ecco the dolphin.hard game my ass. that's not even near the hardest games even just on sega mega drive
>>10932627>how is this considered one of the hardest games ever?[citation needed]
>>10932639I just saw a reddit thread seething about it. "hardest game ever made?" "lion king!" x 15 No I'm not linking it.
>>10932627>hard game my assOk.
>>10932627It's literally a meme. It's just one of those games that fucking everyone and their grandmother bought, rented or borrowed back then, and it just so happened to have a big difficulty spike right on the second level that was purposely added to fuck with kids renting it so they would be incentivized to buy it, and since most kids probably didn't own a whole lot of games back then and the majority of those kids, now grown up, haven't gone back to appraise it fairly in comparison with other titles much more worthy of being called hard as balls, it stuck. It's the hardest game because it's a "hard" game that almost everyone played, simple as.
It follows the horrific Western convention of "make it bullshit on purpose, so retarded children buy the game". Nintendo honestly were the good guys for outlawing game rentals.
>>10932749>Nintendo honestly were the good guys for outlawing game rentals.wtf are you talking about zoomer? no such thing ever happened
>>10932762In Japan fuckface.
>>10932627Its pretty hard but also fair, in the 2nd level some of the collision detection can be hard to get used to. Playing it casually it took me 3 weeks to get to the maze level.
>>10932802YWNBJ
>>10932627It's the stupid ostrich Battletoads bike part that's hard as fuck to read. Once you know what it wants the game's pretty manageable, but it is fucking weird and unintuitive as hell. Everything about that level from the hippos to the monkeys is terrible but that takes the cake. Pretty sweet cover of the song on Genesis, though.
>>10933168anime website
>>10932652>caring about retro gaming opinions from the internet Lol, lmao. The game is nothing special in terms of difficulty and is only truly difficult for retarded players who ignore their previous failures and never change their approach. If you die from a jump, return to that spot, and jump in the same way, you should immediately stop playing video games and get your brain examined to ensure it's actually there.
The Genesis version at least had the intended visibility. Like most Gen-to-SNES ports the pixels are wider and there's less of them horizontally fucking with your ability to see the stupid ostrich obstacles on time.
>>10933198> If you die from a jump, return to that spot, and jump in the same way, you should immediately stop playing video games and get your brain examined to ensure it's actually there.This is a bitter pill some people will never have the guts to shallow.
>>10933257I think I discussed this with you earlier, that the difference is more or less negligible during gameplay. You know there's an indicator during the ostrich sections telling you which obstacle is approaching from offscreen right
>>10933196You're still a weeb who actual Japanese people make fun of.
Like Aladdin, Lion King was a phenomenon for little boys at the time. I think most people who owned the system then played it at some point either by rental, purchase, or at a friend's house. Many got stuck at the infamous second level which was supposed to stop people from beating it on a rental and never purchasing it. Once you learn the gimmicks and get the ostrich ride down it's not too tough. The rest of the game isn't too bad, but it's just difficult enough to stump a lot of little boys at certain points, especially on a rental. These little boys then grow up and remember how difficult it was when they were kids, and since so many people played the game due to Lion King's popularity, they find other former little boys who have the same memories. Personally, I had no problem beating it as a kid, I had more trouble with Aladdin.
This game isn’t even difficult in a good way. The first stage is a fun enough platformer that plays like Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure. The second stage is rote Dragon’s Lair memorization. Just play Pitfall.
>>10932627> how is this considered one of the hardest games ever?It is? I had no idea due to the lack of a frame of reference.>I beat it as a dumbass kidI didn't. I couldn't get past the level with caves.
>>10933198nta, but what's wrong with it?In this case, I think that I fumbled the jump execution, and I should repeat it until I can consistently pull it off.
>>10933470>I think that I fumbled the jump execution, and I should repeat [fumbling the jump execution] until I can consistently [fumble the jump execution].I know you didn't mean it this way but I found that reading humorous; I suggest you reiterate for clarity's sake if you care to. Anyways, what's wrong with repeating inputs which lead to failure is how it wastes your time, frustrates you for no reason, and negatively impacts your gameplay experience through no fault but your own and often leads to externalizing blame to soothe your battered ego. In other words, if you're fumbling an intended input then successfully executing it later you're not performing the same input twice now are you?
>>10933684Ok, it *is* funny. My ESLness bites me in the ass yet again.>what's wrong with repeating inputs which lead to failure is how it wastes your timeIf you use save states to train, you hardly waste any time.If you're an experience purist - yes, it can be extremely furstraiting.>leads to externalizing blame to soothe your battered egoCorrect, but that's a common problem when it comes to doing anything non-trivial.>if you're fumbling an intended input then successfully executing it later you're not performing the same input twice now are you?Yes, but I've never seen anyone who straight-up repeatedly jumps into the bottomless pit or something.Usually, it's a tricky jump that you *just* missed, but you still think that it's doable.
>>10933193This, most people give up on this level, not because its strictly too hard, but because its annoying and they could play something better.The first level is easy as fuck too.
>>10933687Save state or not, repeating the same input which initially lead to failure is nothing short of brainless behavior. If you can't learn from your mistakes then you're incapable of learning and it's a miracle you managed to start the game at all.>I've never seen anyone who straight-up repeatedly jumps into the bottomless pit or somethingYou haven't seen that journalist failing the tutorial stage of Cuphead? Be thankful for that.Bear in mind, you seem to be thinking of a platforming situation where a pixel perfect input is required, where there is only one possible correct input that you have to repeatedly attempt. I'm thinking more like the first goomba in SMB, where there are tons of correct and incorrect permutations which all come down to varying tiers of knowledge and skill:>doesn't jump (death)>tries to jump using incorrect button (death)>successfully presses jump too quickly, landing before the goomba (death)>successfully presses jump extra long and passes the goomba (survive)>successfully presses jump precisely long enough to land on the goomba (survive + points)I'm referring to the kind of person that presses jump too quickly, dies, presses jump too quickly again, dies again, presses jump too quickly again again, dies again again, then gets a game over before claiming the game is too difficult/unfair/clunky/etc rather than trying a different approach.I could give you a whole spiel about save state usage and the veiled supremacy that deludes its users but seeing as you handwaved the value of your own experience as puritanism I can't imagine anything will come of it. Watch a gameplay video if you can no longer be burdened by rules in games you chose to experience.
>>10933764>repeating the same input which initially lead to failure is nothing short of brainless behaviorRepeating the same input is almost impossible for a human.You can break it down into intent and execution. ie jump onto the ledge and a series of imputs.If you're talking about the intent, this is indeed insane.But if your intent is to grab the ledge, then it means that according to your internal model your execution will bring the desired result.If it doesn't work, and it most likely doesn't, you tweak your internal model until it eventually matches the desired result.> If you can't learn from your mistakes then you're incapable of learningNot really.If you refuse to adjust your model, it just means that you're stubborn. It's a character flaw, not an indicator of your cognitive ability.>You haven't seen that journalist failing the tutorial stage of Cuphead?I did. I also heard that he hardly plays videogames.imo his performance is pretty normal for the absolute beginner. It's just most of us - me included - literally cannot remember being this green.> presses jump too quickly, dies, presses jump too quickly again, dies again, presses jump too quickly again againI would argue that this person would benefit the most from actually beating the game. Not only he could beat it, he probably *should* beat it. It's not something inherent to the person, it's an acquired broken behaviour pattern that probably negatively affects everything in their lives.>seeing as you handwaved the value of your own experience as puritanismI see two parts here.First - and you probably will agree - is that beating the game is beating it from start to finish without any external help.Second, when you're learning how to beat the game, anything goes. This is the point of contention, I guess.Take the OP. If you want to practice the adult Simba, you need to beat several levels first.If you're good with a small Simba, it's an equivalent of a timer in a mobile game.
>>10933764Oh yeah? now THIS is what I call brainless behavior.>I hate watching folks make mistake in video games>oh, I know! I'll watch youtube videos of newbies playing. btw while they're in tumultuous social situations when they're busy in the middle of social shit, so I can spot any mistake they do! >how about watching someone who never played a game next? so I can SPOT their mistakeYou think I'm lucky? No, I simply... didn't watch the video.You're brainless for watching sensationalist videos of things you know you hate. It's *no different* than repeating an input and jumping into a pit. It's just not good, uncouth behavior, to watch others play video games and do that. But even if it was, it's still brainless.You're jumping into a thing you know you hate-seeing youtube noobs make mistakes. And you do it? and your kind starts spreading those videos, all the while claiming to hate watching them? idk what to tell you...
>>10933305>You know there's an indicator during the ostrich sections telling you which obstacle is approaching from offscreen rightnta, but, if I remember correctly, only during the first run.
Back in the nineties, I don't remember having trouble with the ostrich, but maybe it was easier on the PAL version since it ran slower. The main issue I have with the game falling through platforms or failing to grab the hanging points, which is a problem with every disney game using those animations.The areas I remember as hard were:- Hakuna matata, climbing the waterfall with logs- Jumping from hanging point to hanging point in the final level- Throwing scar.I ended having to use B-A-R-R-Y to skip levels on Snes.
>>10933863While it is highly improbable to exactly repeat inputs down to the frame, all inputs can be determined as failures or successes in relation to their variance. If you aren't varying your inputs enough then you will keep failing in a similar manner each time. If you can't recognize what you're doing wrong, you have a fundamental cognitive issue. That's different from recognizing the problem and refusing to change. Let's not overlook the possibility of a player frustrating themselves attempting to do something based on a misconception whether that's trying to enter restricted areas, trying to pick up items that are not actually items, using abilities or skills incorrectly, etc.The Cuphead journalist was more of an easy target joke than an effective demonstration of my issue with unobservant players, the example I gave of a person unable to clear the first goomba in SMB is a cartoonish cariacature of this unobservant player archetype, the kind of person that cannot possibly conceive there is more than one way to play. A person like this will never beat any game unless it is constantly holding their hand, they would be genuinely better off doing anything other than playing video games. If you're good playing as young Simba, that indicates you enjoy playing the game and shouldn't take issue with playing young Simba more should you get a game over. Circle of life, if you will.
>>10933872The entire premise of your post is broken by including "longplay", "full playthrough", etc, into your search query. Seriously, if you hate the rules of a game then don't play it, just watch someone better play it instead.
>>10933949Finally someone noticed. You're right, it's so you can get a feel for the different obstacles. If I'm not mistaken there's an extra life nearby making the punishment for losing the ostrich run inconsequential
>>10934163>If you can't recognize what you're doing wrong, you have a fundamental cognitive issueIf you really can't - yes, you probably have some sort of brain damage.The amount of people who are actually like that is tiny.>The Cuphead journalist was more of an easy target joke than an effective demonstration of my issue with unobservant playersYes, because he wasn't unobservant, just very, very, very unskilled.My point was that his case is irreletvant.>A person like this will never beat any game unless it is constantly holding their hand, they would be genuinely better off doing anything other than playing video games.If it's due to the brain damage or if the person is actually impared - I agree.If it's a learned behavior - chances are, this one wouldn't be able to succeed in anything other than doing drugs.>If you're good playing as young Simba, that indicates you enjoy playing the game and shouldn't take issueIt's a non-sequitur.I want to practice and the game is gatekeeping my practice opportunity.By your logic, forcing a, say, Warcraft 3 player to beat a single player mission each time before queuing for the online match is ok becase the player enjoys the campaign.
Lion King wasn't hard. And the temple issue in Fallout 2 was never a true issue. Also, the tutorial in Driver wasn't hard either, just as the toy-helicopter mission in GTAVC.Seriously, I'm tired of that bullshit.Also, there's that Hitman Codename 47 thread right now with some fucktards claiming it wasn't anything special in 2000. OH COME ON!
>>10932627>how is this considered one of the hardest games ever?Easy... it's not. And it never had that reputation.If you want to see a game with that reputation that is the literal opposite - Metroid 1. Pretty high up on actually easiest NES games ever. Pretty high up on lists for being notoriously difficult. But you can just... well... play it and find out how not true that is at all.Fuck if there's one game for people to try speedrunning it's Metroid 1 - because it's literally like the easiest game to even speedrun.
>>10932627>complaining about the lion kingIt staaaaahts...
>>10934227>The amount of people who are actually like that is tiny>Yes, because he wasn't unobservant, just very, very, very unskilled.>If it's a learned behavior - chances are, this one wouldn't be able to succeed in anything other than doing drugs.If you repeat the same mistake without trying to change anything, you are effectively brain-dead. It's a joke, a flippant remark and nothing else.>It's a non-sequiturIf you don't enjoy playing by the rules of a game then you simply don't enjoy playing that game. If you're forcing yourself to get through a game just for the sake of experiencing its content, seriously consider watching a playthrough instead. You are choosing to play a game which has rules, by ignoring them you are gatekeeping the game from how it's played. If you change the rules, you're no longer playing the game. If you actually enjoy playing the game, you will enjoy playing it over and over by the rules. That's what anons mean when they write "you didn't beat the game" - because by ignoring the rules you're no longer playing the game. If we were playing tag and I decided I was untaggable because being tagged was gatekeeping me from running away you'd think I was a gutless cheater and you'd be right.>By your logic, forcing a, say, Warcraft 3 player to beat a single player mission each time before queuing for the online match is ok becase the player enjoys the campaign.Non-sequitur: Online mode is seperate from the core game, The Lion King has no online mode and is in fact a linear game. Why wouldn't you want to breeze through a game you enjoy playing to get to a more difficult part you also enjoy playing?If you stop enjoying a game after you played it once, you're apparently only in it for the novelty and you absolutely should watch a video instead.
>>109326272 things>the devs have admitted that they intentionally made it harder than it would've been so that it would be really difficult to beat in a rental period.>Lion King is special in that it wasn't just played by gamers, it was played by EVERY kid. So there was a much bigger pool of children to call it hard.
>>10933257I had the SNES version as a kid, I never thought of this, that makes perfect sense now
>>10935187>you are effectively brain-deadYes, but you're not actually brain-dead. All that you need to do is to change the behaviour.>If you don't enjoy playing by the rules of a game then you simply don't enjoy playing that gameCorrect, because almost any game of any sophistication feels like shit when you're unskilled.And it - for the most part - wasn't designed to make you skilled.Learning toolchain being shit or non-existent is a trend in gaming that continues to this day.>If you're forcing yourself to get through a game just for the sake of experiencing its content, seriously consider watching a playthrough insteadHow about no?>by ignoring them you are gatekeeping the game from how it's playedWhy should I care about that?> If you change the rules, you're no longer playing the gameI'm cheating to learn efficiently, yes. Your point being?> If you actually enjoy playing the game, you will enjoy playing it over and over by the rulesNo. I don't enjoy being shit at any game. It feels horrible. Any trick to get through this phase faster is a fair game.> That's what anons mean when they write "you didn't beat the game"Yes, and they can all go eat a dick. You grab the controller and you beat the game from start to finish without any form of cheating - you beat the game.You didn't - you didn't. That's it. You use the term "gatekeeping" extensively, yet you're accusing me of a thought crime of training efficiently before beating the game.> Non-sequitur: Online mode is seperate from the core gameIt's not. I provided a hyphotetical example because it would be equally bad game design. If you care about the player's experience, that is.> Why wouldn't you want to breeze through a game you enjoy playing to get to a more difficult part you also enjoy playing?I don't enjoy the difficult part when I suck at it.If I want to train and I need to cheat to do it - so be it. It just means that game designers suck when it comes to teaching the player.
>>10932627>mega drive It’s called the Genesis you retard
>>10932627It was a game everyone rented and got stuck on including me and my friends. You must be a god gamer.
>>10932627I got filtered at the waterfall part, but after I figured it out, it was smooth sailing.
your hyperbole is just as tedious. people aren't seriously putting it in the pantheon of hardest videogames, it's a surprisingly frustrating game given the subject matter and it being aimed at kids and people meme it to that effect.
>>10935679>I'm cheating to learn efficiently, yes. Your point being?Your need for mastery before enjoyment is Sisyphean. It's a game, accept losses as lessons lest you never truly learn.>I don't enjoy being shit at any game. It feels horrible.Take yourself less seriously.>It's not. I explained why it is.>I don't enjoy the difficult part when I suck at it.That seems like you're not enjoying yourself for a majority of the time spent playing. >I want to train and I need to cheat to do itExcuse me, training.
>>10932627It's simple, Lion King had a huge appeal, and the 16-Bit consoles were huge when this came out, a lot of hype around the film meant that many kids back then rented and/or bought it, and that spike in difficulty that they gave the 2nd level to avoid it being beat on a rental could be truly brutal as a kid... a lot of titles were harder, but they weren't as played as this one was, so it left an impression.I struggled to finally finish this a few years back, but pulled through and nowadays I like how hard it is, it's the kind of hard that tests you, but that feels engaging when you know what to do too.
I remember playing this as a child and getting stuck for a long time in the exile phase because I didn't know the manual rolling mechanic existed.
>>10932652You'll fit in better over there. You should go back.
This game is like when the cartoon character paints a tunnel on the wall and the other guy just runs smack into it.
>save state argument spawned a separate threadGood, take it over there.
>>10935198>it wasn't just played by gamers, it was played by EVERY kid. So there was a much bigger pool of children to call it hard.It's this, it's like 99% this. The game is hard for non-gamers, by contrast ProtonJon, an LPer who has been playing platformers almost all his life, makes the game look piss-easy in this short playthroughhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyNrYAkYYuYBecause it's not THAT hard of a game...if you're actually good at videogames. Which basically everyone here on /vr/ is. People here forget how bad non-gamers are at games, and they played this game too.
The 2nd level isn't even the real filter, the hakuna matata level with the waterfall is a lot harder and tedious.2nd level just has the ostrich part (which isn't even hard, it's just the collision is a bit weird regarding the tree sprites), and solving the monkey puzzle. The actual platforming is easy.The final adult levels are the hardest, fuck the lava one and the troll final stretch and exit.
>>10932835Oh dear lord, you suck, 3 weeks?
>>10934014How did you find out about throwing Scar? Throwing is never mentioned in the game itself.
>>10932685Sounds like it's the Dark Souls of video games.
>>10933342>boys>caring about disneyonly women and faggots ever cared about disney. kys
>>10939089Diiiiiisneeey es maaaaaagiaaaaaaaaEs diiiiiiversioooooooooonDiiiiiisneeey eeeees maaaaagiaaaaaaaa...
>>10939089>he’s so underage that he isn’t even aware that Darkwing Duck, Tale Spin, Ducktales, and George of the Jungle existWe get it kid. You’re a homosexual zoomer. You can move along now and rope yourself
>>10938429nta but kids were kinda just expected to read the manual, usually on the drive home from the store.
>>10932639No, this game really does have a reputation for being hard. As in a lot of people who go on about how it's one of the hardest side-scrollers on the Sega Genesis, (or SNES, the games have the same difficulty) how they couldn't beat it as a kid, etc. You just seem to be demonstrating unfamiliarity with this reputation. I'm not saying people are right to have it by the way, I actually agree with OP that its difficulty is exaggerated. But that's different from acting like this reputation isn't there.
>>10932685The game could have been great, as it stands it was just rushed. Because of the flaws you pointed out and the general lack of polish due to being rushed, it's merely decent, but certainly not a bad game. It's actually above-average for the standards of movie-based games in general. As a matter of fact, the games based on Disney media from this era tended to be good, given that most of them were either developed by Capcom or Virgin. Virgin was surprisingly good at making games. Both the Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis versions of Aladdin are good side-scrollers for their time by any metric.
>>10932652Redditors are notoriously retarded.
>>10932652go back
>>10935709Only in your dumb country fatass
>>10940361Even bongland zoomers are starting to call it the Genesis, it's unironically over for megacucks
>>10932627I've grown to really like it, even played some of the ports out of curiosity, overall Genesis is just better than the others, alongside the DOS one, for it's wider resolution and being able to skip a part in the 2nd level where the collision isn't all that good, where you're forced to swing across on SNES, which is still a good version though. It's surprising how good the Master System and the Game Gear ports were though, levels aren't just copies, they have their own layouts and, in a few ways, it's better, like the collision detection, it's quite good and I recommend them to anyone.I think the worst versions are the NES and Game Boy ones, the Game Boy Color title that came a few years later is fine, but the OG ones? I'm not sure if I prefer the NES or Game Boy one, since the NES one cuts off just before Simba becomes and adult, in a way ending it sooner is merciful.
>>10940361Sega is an AMERICAN company founded BY AMERICANS from BROOKLN. Cope harder britlard
>>10938429Club Nintendo's Magazine. A free small mag published by the local Nintendo distributor at the time (Erbe) with a few guides each month.
>>10935306Also the SNES has a section where you have to swing through the hippo's tails in the 2nd level, when you can climp up and skip the section on Genesis, it's a lot more forgiving in general.
>>10932627Zoomers think you should be able to beat games without ever getting a game over. That's the only type of game they know.
>>10947754It's not just zoomers though, The Lion King's had a reputation since the 90's for being a relatively tough title that many people played back then.
