I give up. I really enjoyed the first KF but this has just been painful all the way. The game lags constantly even when there is nothing going on, the map goes in every direction and all the different textures and motifs are used and re-used randomly which doesn't help get your bearings, the maps they provide barely help. The level design really feels like it was someone's first Doom map from 1994 except x20 in size. I am now lvl 26, have about 4 key items I have no idea what to do with, and I feel like I've been everywhere except for ONE place I remember that ***might*** be where to use some of those key items but I can't even find it anymore. There is no way I can continue unless I cling to a guide.My question is, are KF3 and Shadow Tower like this too? Lag and messy level design ? KF1 was fine, idk what happened here.
On the positive side I enjoyed the key shop, being able to buy or copy keys when you need several of them was a nice mechanic. The bow is cool too although its use is limited by the number of arrows. It's really mostly just the level design and the lag I can't stand in this one.
They tried to meme me into these games too because Fromsoft but nahh, one look at these games and you can tell this series died for a reason
Shadow Tower Abyss is the only good one. The rest are the exact same "hit step back hit step back" 10/10 gameplay that so many people apparently love
From Software was a meme shovelware pusher until like 2012
>>10902817more like King's Shit... for video "essayists"
>>10902817I thought 2 had the best map design of the PS1 kfsBut I was emulating and had a big virtual CPU overclock, which removes slowdown and raises the game speed and fps a bit
>>10902909*There is also a mouselook hack, I didn't use it in my playthrough because it wasn't out yet but I've tried it and it feels great. Overpowered as hell but the game is easy anyway.
>>10902817The level design is what makes it an 11/10 game, but if your sense of orientation is shit you'll be glad to know KF2 is an outlier. KF3 is practically linear.
>>10902817I prefer the PS2 games way more than the ps1 games. The ps2 games are actually artistically and intelligently designed like a predecessor to dark souls and not a random mishmash of bullshit and boring corridors.
Holy shit I did it. I went back to check the game ONE LAST TIME and turns out I only had one major area left.Here is what I got stuck when I got to the ice cave I couldn't beat the ice giants no matter what I tried; but then after I found a magic water source I went back there and could afford to use fire spells on them, once defeated that unblocked the path to the final area.I still had some things left undone though. I used the 2 keys for the shrine but I couldn't get the door opened no matter which combination I tried. I also don't think I ever used the Elf Key, and I never opened any of the sealed gates. Anyway I still think level design was kinda shit in this one. Hopefully the next ones are better, but I need a break from KF now, I think I'll play Virtual Hydlide next.
>>109028172 has pretty draconian level design. When I played it, I looped through the map over and over again looking for secrets and ways to progress. I would say the map overall is good when you look at game maps holistically, this one stands out to me for representing a untamed island location surrealistically >>10903712Literally same with the ice area being a huge roadblock for me, for some reason I didn't want to explore that area, I think it was kind of intimidating
To answer your question. I wasn't satisfied with the level design in KFIII. Felt like a series of large rooms with small offshoots rather than a labrynth like 1 or a natural biome like 2Shadow Tower is pretty easy to progress 90 percent of the game. The map isn't an obstacle, there are just some slightly obscure completion requirements and loot (just gotta be very thorough really)
>>10902854>>10902856>>10902857>>10902860Imagine being this proud of your lack of good taste
>>10902817objective rankingKF4 > KF3 > ST Abyss > ST > Eternal Ring > KF1 > KF2anyone who paises KF4 and/or ST Abyss solely like >>10902856 is a Souls fagsand anyone who praises and overrated KF2 while hating on 3 is a poser faggotand anyone who calls Eternal Ring the worst thing Fromsofware ever made is a drone subhuman repeating shit he heard from /v/ and reddit
>>10903842I enjoyed aspects of 3 and it is quite ambitious but it falls apart as a holistic experience while the other ones do not. I can name lots of parts that impressed me but the flow from piece to piece is practically non existent
>>10903848>it is quite ambitious but it falls apart as a holistic experience while the other ones do not.you just described KF2it tried to be open and huge but it didn't work out end ended up being a tedious slop to navigateKF3 was much better it was more focused and polished and overall an enjoyable experience
>>10903870That's how navigating a jungle island should feel, there are plenty of games offering neat and tidy segmented mazes with obvious entrances and exits. The high level lore in KFIII and the insight system are badass, but the game's setting and roleplaying are the least immersive out of all 4
>>10902817KF2 has the most inconsistent framerate of any game in the series. While I think the map design in 2 is good overall, the areas in 3 and 4 feel more distinct from each other, so you'll probably like them more.>>10902856Shadow Tower Abyss isn't any different in that regard. I'm not surprised you dislike the games if you think gameplay=combat, though.
>>10903842>absolutely nonsensical ranking order>no reasoning given>"every variation of common sense opinions is dead wrong"
>>10902817Three is much easier to navigate and is more consistent in the frame rate. It's less free form but still an open world so it's hard to get lost in it, so it will be easier to play. I say finish this one first, just take a few notes if you have a hard time remembering, you just keep going any direction you can continue in and just keep exploring, you'll eventually find important items and make progress.
>>10903996>every variation of common sense opinions is dead wrong">KF2 is le good because muh interconnected world just like my hecking epic Reddit Souls 1!!!>common sense opiniongo back to /v/ fromdrone
KFI > KFIV = KFII > KFIII > ST
>>10904026KF4 is the only game in the series that shares its world structure with Dark Souls. Try harder.
>>10903712Congrats on finishing.The level design is the least consistent aspect of the KF series. If you enjoyed most of what the game had on offer aside from the map, definitely give the others a try. KF2 has, by far, the most confusing map. I'm glad it released how it did, though, because it's a one of a kind experience that I really enjoyed.
>>10903712The third game has a level design more like one but instead of having it separated by floors, it's separated by areas on the map and each dungeon is more self contained with some intertwining parts and town areas are more distinctly separated from dungeon areas, so you'll have an easier time making progress and knowing where you are at.2 is definitely a more hardcore school 90s rpg layout and 3 is more user friendly.
>>10902817im playing this right now and its crazy hard, any tips without spoilers?
>>10902909These games are hard to play without emulation speeding it up. The framerate and speed jank is incredibly bad but that's just how "cutting edge" games were back in the 90s where a lot of developers would push out games that performed like shit.
>>10905985There is a guy in the southern town that can turn your large crystals into potion bottles, should be your first major goal
>>10905985>>10906015You can't do that before you find the kid in the thermite cave, and you basically need the bow to beat that cave, which is close by.
>>10902817>>10902850The level design is great, such a vast labyrinth with little secrets within secrets you can spend literal years discovering. I can't think of another game that's done exploration this well - most of them are just open world slop.Sadly, we cannot expect most brown zoomer ADHD retards to have the spatial IQ necessary to navigate the game. >>10905998I don't see why the frame rate matters when 90% of monsters are just as slow as you are. It's a contemplative and raw experience.>>10905985Most of the difficulty is just adapting to tank controls that have fallen out of favor in recent years and not having an automap. If you actually use healing items wisely and build mental maps in your head it's a cinch with middling difficulty at best. Combat is mostly stunlocking with spell and melee rotation while dodging.>>10904036I didn't mind Shadow Tower. It's extremely harsh but there's really not much else that matches it in terms of thematic and visual darkness. It has no pretense of fairness and the economy is as brutal as the combat. I think textured ambient soundtracks would have suited it better than having no OST though.
>>10902817It's so hilarious to me that post Dark Souls these games that were always known to be janky trash are dug up as "hidden gems" and waves of kids try to force themselves to enjoy it and end up in tears
>>10906024>>10906054What's hilarious is how broken you are. I've never played dark souls and I haven't even seen more than 30 seconds of footage of it, I've been on this board since the very day it was created and I've beaten more 80s and early 90s RPG than you will in your entire life. Echo Night is one of my favourite PSX games so I thought I'd check these out, but now it's impossible to talk about these games without faggots like you posting stupid comments to tell yourself you're "more hardcore" and "less zoomie" than the other posters
>>10906054You're in /vr/, were all actually old here
the most interesting part about the Verdite trilogy to me is how you can see From getting more of a handle on the PS1 as it goes on>KF1 is very simple and flat, with fairly primitive geometry and bland textures: it doesn't run super well but the framerate is usually stable>KF2 is absurdly more ambitious, with a huge sprawling complex map with lots of height variation and more detailed textures, but it runs worse because of it>KF3 is when they started getting it down, and the map is toned down from KF2 (less interconnected, less complex visually, less verticality), but it achieves a happy medium of still having decently detailed and varied areas while running at an actually playable framerate more often than not
>>10902854You cant tell if a game is good or not by looking at it, lol. Your loss. The gatekeepers opened the gate for you, and you gatekept yourself. I'm glad.
>>10905998It's like twice the framerate of games on 3D consoles before the PS1, what the fuck are you on about? You aren't trying to hold it up to modern standards when it isn't a modern game like some retard, are you?
>200% emulation speed on>MouseInjector mod injected>GameFAQs opened
>>10906064Nice story. I played King's Field when it first came out and recognized it as janky garbage as did other people who understand game design. Dark Souls gets popular and all the sudden these threads appear. Maybe someone somewhere played King's Field in the 90's and thought it was incredible but decided to barely say anything about it. I find that all funny though.
>>10907615One has to remember the time these games came out. FPS games were widely popular by that point and for many years they were called Doom clones. People expected a certain pacing in a first person action game. The Fromsoft first person games were very lethargic compared to what people were expecting from these sorts of games that were ingrained by then for that view point. These games aren't good. They have good aspects that are alluring for a subset of players, but overall they were lacking in comparison to their contemporaries.
>>10907549>but it runs worse because of itI would say 2 runs well at times but the framerate is all over the place, it seems to be fluctuate a lot, so it runs the fastest of the trilogy at times and runs the worst of it too at others.Harvine's Castle for example with the ghosts and faces in the wall that shoot constantly, it crawls there.
>>10902857You shut your whore mouth.
>>10907674FromSoft didn't own this IP back then, and as far as I know they didn't develop any of the games themselves.
>>10907646No one ever referred to it as a Doom clone, how fucking clueless are you?
>>10907780>For many years they were calledI never said it was called a Doom clone, but there were many years beforehand that FPS games were called that thus a certain expectation was placed upon them, even when the genre shed the name before the year 2000.
>>10907615>small niche series mostly forgotten through time>devs get well known for new series>big gap between games>people want more games from them>people only now learn they existed>many try them but don't like them>some do try them and like themWhat's the funny part? It's all perfectly reasonable.
>>10907615I remember seeing KF threads before a long time ago, probably years before dark souls was released>>10907646>FPSWhat? It's a clone of Dungeon Master, and action-dungeon crawlers like that had existed since the 80s. There is even at least one on NES. KF's shtick was that it was doing that in full 3D (which is also why it was on playstation, in 94-95 the PSX could handle full 3D like this but most computers couldn't).Also I think people's expectations of speed, framerate and movement in FPS at the time wasn't the same as what you have in your head right now. Most people would play Doom at 15 FPS keyboard only and would spend their time slowly corner peaking.
>>10908064I played FPS back then on keyboard, it was still nowhere as lethargic compare to KF. Notice how I didn't call KF a FPS as well and said:>The Fromsoft first person gamesThere's also plenty of examples of 5th gen first person games. You're glossing over that Doom set an expectation, not being a first nor Kings Field attempting to emulate it or being inspired by it.
>>10907603I'm playing the imaginary PC port on an imaginary contemporary $5000 PC
>>10907939I remember that it did get good reviews in Gamefan, but when I rented it thought it was to worst janky trash I'd played since Super Hydlide and it became a kind of running joke in my friend circle. I also find it funny though because I think the Souls games are also trash. Nut whatever, enjoy if you do. I won't waste time yucking yums.
>>10908840>6 yearsWhat is he talking about?
>>10902817the pal version has a more consistent framerate.also reminder to always shun and shame mouse injector users. they're actual cheaters that hate the games but still want to be a part of the club for some reason.
So far enjoying the game but it's not quite clicking as well for me like kings field 4. But I will admit the older kings field games seem way less linear and actually do a good job of feeling like youre lost in some kind of claustrophobic dream or something where so much is abstract and it's almost like you're lost in a lower dimension in some kind of astral projection
>>10909218lol at calling it cheating. you friendless autisms always have some retarded take on things. now if you'll excuse me im going to go use the mouse injector and beat some games and add them to my finished games list. seethe about it autism
I'm not him but to me it's not cheating but it definitely takes away from the aesthetic of the games by using a mouse. These are Japanese console games and it's my opinion the slow controls give you more existence in the game world and it seems very intended and acknowledged by the developers. Much like how resident evil tank controls gives it it's soul and also creates tension with the enemies.
I started playing KF3 and I'm loving it, it's everything I wanted from a KF sequel after 1. It's perhaps a bit too linear so far but there are enough side/optional areas to keep me satisfied; and the level design isn't senseless, the combat is a big step up; and you can actually use spells without feeling super restricted about it.
>>10909218The game's combat, timing and enemies are geared with the game's turning speed in mind. Anybody that uses a mouse is a casual pleb that basically breaks the game. Might as well play Doom with auto targeting or Resident Evil with infinite ammo and health.
>>10909218I already beat KF1-4 and ST/STA with controller. The games are too easy to bother playing with inferior controls and if I ever do a full replay I'll use mouse 100%. You can be hardline about it with Armored Core if you want, those games have difficulty.
>>10907780>>10908064Actually, if you read some of the professional reviews from back in the day, it was quite often directly compared to Doom. It's pretty funny with hindsight, of course. Mainstream game critics have always been kinda stupid.>>10907939There is a large number of media illiterate posters on this site who insist that the quality of art is objective. Worse, some people seem to think individual design decisions are good or bad in of themselves. They get really angry when they see someone enjoying something that falls outside the scope of their extraordinarily narrow vision for the medium. They have nothing to offer and should be ignored.>>10909240Calling someone a friendless autistic while keeping a running list of completed games is a little hypocritical, don't you think?>>10909486Armored Core is also easy, though. Most of them, anyways.
>>10909236Try Iblard on PS1 for more of that
>>10909581However easy you find AC to be, KF is far easier
>>10902817ST level design is pretty good actually and framerate is about as stable as kf3. Horribly janky menus aside it's probably the most polished of the ps1 games.
>>10908840>Floating RunnerSay, I've never even heard of this game. Looks neat
>>10902817ha, you got filtered
>>10902854i actually liked these games way before nu fromsoft
>>10905998eh i got used to the the bad framerate in like five minutes, but yeah back in the day the didnt give a shit if the game ran like ass as long as it looked cool
Serious question - why does it matter if the frame rate isn't smooth? It's low poly with texture warping too. I was never bothered. It never impacted the actual game to me
>>10906168>>10906171Do you have KF3, the 2 Shadow Tower games, and Eternal Ring in this format? <3Also, does anyone have the image that compares the verdite trilogy to Dark Souls 2?
>>10907674retard
>>10902817>There is no way I can continue unless I cling to a guide.So get a guide and a hint and keep playing or don't. If it's fun do it, if it's not, don't. No one's forcing you to play it, on the same line, no one's forcing you not get hints or help with the game. It's a game you don't have to circlejerk it like a puzzle. If you're one of those people who feel like they're puzzles/challenges and don't want to take that out - well then you should be enjoying not knowing, but you don't sound like you are. Those types would probably have drawn up a map by and shit and shit, have you? If you're trying to play that way, then stick to your guns and take it as a challenge with all your tools. If not, do whatever you enjoy.
Goddamnit, anyone knows anything about this? I think I'm softlocked at the entrance of Lake Noel.>give herb>door opens>turn dial once>leads to dead ends on water>come back>door is closed>girls says nothing>giving her herbs do nothing anymoreI also tried re-entering the areaThe guide mentions having to turn a certain way to get a spell and then the door will stay opened and the girl gone
>>10911295NVM you have to give her other items but she doesn't say so, what a bitch
>>10910983These games used a very primitive game loop where the graphics and physics updates happen at the same time. So when the framerate fluctuates so does your movement and turn speed. It's especially bad in kf1 (USA) because the framerate is uncapped.
>>10902854one look at these games and you can tell that they were ahead of their time, as it took todd howard until oblivion to replicate this gameplay
>>10902856>apparently lovetodd howard was releasing same game with this exact gameplay for over 2 decades now. yeah people love it apparently
>>10909581doom wasnt even 3Dhell, fucking daggerfall wasnt 3D and it came out in 1996, while king's field came out in 1994 and was 3Dtodd howard took literally 12 years to even come close to a game released in 1994
>>10910983I usually don't even notice framerate issues, but it's hard to ignore how wildly it fluctuates in KF2. It doesn't ruin the experience for me by any means, but the protagonist's movement speed varying dramatically depending in the situation is an annoyance the player shouldn't have to deal with, and would be a much bigger deal if combat in the game was more demanding. I also find it jarring enough to harm immersion, and this is a series where that's a significant flaw.>>10909301I've seen it get a lot of hate for having less inter-connected areas and for a few of the wide-open environments being a bit boring to navigate, but KF3 is very nearly my favorite game in the series. KF4 is the only one I enjoyed more.
>>10911712>todd howard took literally 12 years to even come close to a game released in 1994He made Terminator Future Shock in 1995 retard. Looks and runs better than KF could ever wish to be with merely software rendering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jHVNu-1vCM
>>10911303She does though, you missed it, first time it's an herb, then a red stone I believe and then an herb after that.There is also a map in that room that tells you what each turn does and the rest you figure it out by exploring.
I'm a total sucker for clever level design, but these games and Shadow Tower are so hard to get into
>>10913669For me they clicked pretty quickly. As a kid I would sit at the computer and stare at that one maze screensaver for long periods of time just soaking up the textures, anticipating each swinging turn , deeply wishing I could take control of the maze myself and find out the deeper meaning of it all. King's Field is the first game to ever echo that meditative experience . Bopping enemies and then backing up so they can't even do shit to you is pretty satisfying too
>>10913704The most endearing and unabashedly autistic post I've read in a long time.
>>10911410Idk. Maybe I'm an idiot but it never lagged unless I was in a room with like 10 enemies personally >>10911915Am I the only one who thought kf1-3 were kino and 4 was mid? It felt much more dull and empty to me
>>10913736IV rocks but it's definitely missing the special sauce
>>10913736In 2 rooms like these drop to what feels like single digits framerate even when they're empty
I've beaten II aka III now, what a great game, I couldn't stop playing and even contemplated spending an all nighter when I was close to the end, I loved every minute of it. My only real issue with it is that it was way too easy and lenient, between the fact that dying doesn't make you lose anything except backtracking time, the golden fountains, the amount of supplies, and the Excellector rendering other weapons pointless for more than half of the game... I did enjoy being able to use spells more freely and how combat was made more challenging. For instance there were often enemy combinations that were tricky, that and strafing in a single direction would often not work, you have to bait the enemy and then strafe in the other direction to be in the clear. At least that was until I found out about the Ryu-Jin and Rai-jin combination which allowed me to simply run behind an enemy and recover in no time.Also steady framerate, level design just the way I like it (and there *is* some unlinearility in the second half of the game), great musics and enemy models. It's a shame people back then didn't get to play 1 before considering all the links between that one and this one. I had to look up how to get the best ending, I did get the Fairy Fossil and also found the place where to use it and tried to use it there, but I would never have guessed you have to use the Phantom Crown at the same time; also I wish that we could have seen Lyn's ressurection in the ending rather than it being merely a passing mention. There is one thing I didn't understand though. At some point we can find Lyne's grave... Is the protagonist not Lyne? Or did he revive, which would also explain why he doesn't die for real when running out of HP?
bump
I'm continuing my marathon with Shadow Tower and holy shit I almost regret saying KF3 was too easy. I reached the Fire World and I was getting my ass handed to me because all my equipment was breaking one after the other. At least I found gear that slowly replenishes HP and MP (not that it helps much for MP since the rings run out so easily); by the end of the Ashen cavern I literally had ALL my weapons and rings ran out except a short sword with 3 endurance points left, had to use Dorado's Ashes on that short sword to kill one last Cerberus and just as I was thinking "That's it, next enemy that comes up I'll have to backtrack ALL the way back to Repair Shop in the Earth World", BAM I find a gate back to Burning Cavern with a Repair Shop in front of me.So I'm currently repairing all my shit while at the same time doing other shit in my life while my HP slowly regenerates so I can repair for free.I'm really liking the game so far, very high replay value, the game looks amazing for 1998, the level of detail on enemies feels like 2000+. The game is perhaps a bit too claustrophobic for my taste though I'd have liked to see a bit more open areas. Between the atmosphere, the jump scares, and the mechanics leaning heavily on inventory management, the game feels very survival horror-ish which makes sense since that was hot at the time
>Elden Ring wasn't a follow up to Eternal RingRip Leila, rip baby birds.
>>10907615 I legit thought it was incredible, I never got far, and I was aware it has flaws but aesthetically and atmospheric, I hadn't played anything like it. I went back a few years ago and got farther, it didn't seem to age much since the last time I had played it. One of these days I'll sit down and at it to completion. That said I appreciate games as art more than I even enjoy them as a game these days typically. Loved Demons souls import way back played the hell out of it, liked dark souls but I was over the series as a whole after 3. Yes that includes bloodborne. And looking back honestly I was over it after demons souls.
>>10902817why bother with this when you could play Ultima like an adult?
>>10902856this board is full of little bitches
>>10914173I hardly used the excellectorDid you happen to think you only power up the excellector by using it? In fact it just powers up as you get XP, don't have to use it. As I remember it I only used it when it first hits level 3 for a short time before the game takes it away, and I had the triple sword before it powered up again.
>>10918787I did realize you don't have to use it for it to lvl up. Even when I had other weapons that were slightly better in attack, the fast stamina refill and it's ease of use made it often the better choice
>>10902854Based
>>10918984Well it's viable but I don't think it renders other weapons pointless. It mostly seems like a fallback for people that don't find the best weapon flowchart to get something good enough slightly later
>>10918719Because Ultima is soulless and boring
>>10918719Totally different style of games to be fair. Kings field isn't about depth as much as it's about discovery and adventure and secrets. Also it's way more atmospheric
>>10913736>Am I the only one who thought kf1-3 were kino and 4 was mid?Nah you're right. 4 is for the Souls fans who also claim to like "PSX Aesthetix" but can't get into the early games because they're "clunky and slow"
I just want to go home and continue playing Shadow Tower
>>10921350work is suffering, I know. Especially when you finally find a game worth looking forward to.
The english translation for KF1, does it have any major bugs I should know about before I burn it to a CD-r?
>>10922356IIRC it doesn't work on hardware, only emulators.
>>10922510Well thats fucking infuriating if true. God damnit
>>10922706According to the notes on CDRomance, there's a patch which fixes the crashing issues on real hardware. You should be fine.
>>10922351I was away on holidays for a few days actually, but I'm back now. I think I only have Monster World left in the game.After finding a semi-secret path backtracking back to Water World, which I used to repair for free by going back & forth between the healing fountain and the repair shop, it made me wonder if anyone here has tried a "sequence breaking" playthrough and start playing by the last world or come up with his own custom route? I've been doing things in order, floor by floor, but the possibilities to do things in any order seem quite big
I've beaten it now, really great game overall. I really doubt any of the PS2 games can better than KF3 and this but I'll give them a try eventually
And as a bonus have a small collage of Pilot Style.Has anyone tried to King Field's game maker windows program they released in 2000? It comes with a pre-made KF1 remake but judging from screenshots and videos, monsters look really dumb, almost comical
>>10923957I prefer the level design of the ps2 games by a lot because they actually make sense as a real settlement/building
>>10923960>>10923957Thank you for these collages
I started playing Eternal Ring aka KF Gaiden and I'm not liking it very much. Despite being more fast paced, both the level design and combat is more annoying than it is fun.
