Big Yellow Fist edition >/GROG/ Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/nnNqqFLn
Get Fisting!
Something that has been bugging me lately about 2E (or maybe specifically, the battle report in the SW codex) - are troops allowed to deploy in overwatch? In the battle report Andy deploys his Long Fangs in overwatch and takes some potshots at Jervis' wartrak during the Ork's first turn - I had assumed this was just a quirk of the RT-era overwatch rules they were using when the battle report was written up, but after reading the rules in the RT Compilation declaring overwatch works the same way as in 2E (at the start of the player's turn, giving up moving/shooting for that turn). Was this just something they were trying out during development that didn't make it into the game?
I was literally about to raise the banner again and make a /grog/ myself!Look at these. Wrongwaygoback on Instagram. Absolutely splendid.
>>92746332Saw those the other day - real spicy. The Rhinos are a real treat too, the shading on those hazard stripes is fantastic.
>>92746332>>92746389The paint jobs confuse me a bit. He's obviously put in effort to make the metal look rusty and weathered, but all the 'painted' bits like the hazard stripes and iconography are pristine and clean.Also undrilled bolter barrels are haram
>>92746318>are troops allowed to deploy in overwatch?Very Yes, it's a helpful balancing thing against a lot of shit that can just pop up in the first turn and otherwise wreck shit (infiltrators, teleporting shit, pop-up attacks and so on) so don't neglect it.
How does one collect a retro 40K army these days? Is Ebay pretty much the only option? Looking to get back into this, burned out/bored of 10th desu. Apparently my mom lost my teenage collection of marines and tyranids, I'm fuckin fuming over here bros haha. How hard is it to store a box for 15 years?
>>92747283Ebay, Facebook trading groups, wargames shows.Also GW making old stuff again now Old World is out. Thought the Marauder Giant being £50 was actually somewhat reasonableAlso third party "old school" manufacturers
>>92747283The best ways these days are:3d print equivalents (well catered for) and buying similar items from other manufacturers (check the OP pastebin).Trading directly with people via F*cebook groups, at shows and the like.Ebay these days is barely kind of doable but it's gotten real fucking bad thanks to certain people essentially buying up shit to resell for insanely inflated prices. You've gotta spend a lot of time searching and be basically getting lucky with wrongly or badly listed items or spotting stuff lumped into bundles of crap.
I had this inquisitor conversion I made years ago when those scions kits first came out sitting around and had the dilemma of wanting to finally paint him but now needing him to fit in with mostly 2e minis, so I made him very colorful. It'll be fun to finally run this dude in something, even that was a long time ago now haha.
>>92747283Third party stuff exists in the style, lots of shops got older scultpors or just plain old minis. I for example got an ungodly pile of metal lizards in space from lancer miniatures that I use for various oldhammery games in place of slann.
>>92747790These are lovely anon
Probably and ovbious question to you but how do you get those small rocks on bases? Just sand?
>>92748319Yep, there's different grades of sand
>>92748319Not just any sand, its Citadel Sand™. It's been OOP for a many years but you might get lucky on Ebay
>>92748319you can also literally just use dirt for basing. Just make sure to heat it in the oven for a while to sterilise it and to seal it with PVA or something afterwards.
Literally never even heard of this miniature somehow. Brakar the Avenger, Ratskin hired gun for OG Necromunda
Here's something you basically never see outside of Inquisitor; mercenaries.John Blanche just making shit for his own amusement miniatures in origin, but exactly the kind of thing that'd fit great into some RT scenarios.
>>92749014My impression from the Filmdeg interviews, although John is much older and forgetful now, is that he's never let any concept of "canon" get in the way of his art. As it should be.Like even now when he's playing Mordheim he just starts making stuff up. Very charming.
Got a new flyer/spaceship I'm going to ding up. Make a scenario to save the bacon of a local dignitary by escorting him to it.
I was told you lot might be wanting these scans I've been working on so they're more presentable.
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>>92748860>>92749014>>92749098MOAR!
Does anyone have an image of Pete Haines’ WD info box about games designers not hiding “Easter eggs” in the rules? Must have been published during 3e if memory serves.
>>92745909So much kickass stuff in this one. Top GROG.
>>92751959These days that power fist would be waving a pride flag. TAKE ME BACK I WANT TO GO BACK
Played my first game of 2e todayI now 100% get why people fuck with this edition so much, it feels so much like a crazy toy soldier battle and I love it
>>92751985It's definitely the most gonzo edition after RT, glad to hear you enjoyed it. Did you have Dark Millennium for the expanded psychic powers?
>>92752096We actually both didn’t include players in our lists funny enough, we did a an unintentional mirror match of HQ in termie/exo armor, matching retinue, bikes and tac or basic squat squads in droves. My bikes ended up killing more guys after losing control and ramming than when they were shooting lol
>>927472831. 3D printing like everyone else has mentioned,2. Groups like on Facecuck can offer you better choices at more reasonable prices.They're also good for finding shit you can't find anywhere else.3. ebay. Sometimes you luck out and get a model that would go for twice than what you paid for. Other times you realize you might not see it again at a lower price and drop a bunch of money for one model. 4. Recasts. A surprising number of casters out there are looking for older stuff to sell. I know of two Ivans that are beefing up their oldhammer ranges. Then there's a guy that has a bunch of metal shit in serbia or somewhere. Honestly, if you're in the EU, you got A LOT of good options.
>>92751980I got good/bad news for you, the ones who paint pride flags are more likely to actually play oldhammer and probably will be more enjoyable...because they will just play the game. Also, let's face it, bright and colorful armies are fun
>>92753031>I got good/bad news for you, the ones who paint pride flags are more likely to actually play oldhammer and probably will be more enjoyableDo not want to bring this kind of discussion upon /grog/ but no. No.And I say this as an actual BOYL-visiting grog.Most actual grogs, and not online retro navel-gazers, are slightly older and as such, being British, even the left-wing ones aren't the sharpest on the whole "political correctness" thing.The "paint everything white, pink, and blue" types are peak nu40k consoomer brains.
Just parsing some interesting stuff from a FB discussion on the stuff they're releasing for the Old World. As the metal-to-resin stuff like the Casket of Souls, and some of the metals like the Bone Giant, have been totally "remastered" and had stuff added, but the Made-to-Order stuff is as it was when made:>Even if the moulds would last that long in storage, GW generally dumped moulds for out of production models due to space constraints.>It’s pretty much guaranteed that all re-releases have had new production moulds made from the hard tin masters, if they still have the masters, or from cleaned up production models if they don’t.>When the bits service and archive service ended, and they stopped producing most metal models, there were entire skips full of discarded moulds behind the factory. This was confirmed by multiple people at the time.>GW didn’t thin things down a bit. They threw away the vast majority of production moulds, as confirmed by people who worked there. >In some cases GW don’t just not have the moulds for older models, but the masters too. There are plenty of stories from factory staff about older masters being stored loose in shoeboxes without labelling, and simply lost, or actually being stolen.>This isn’t speculation on my part, it’s direct from staff at the time.
>>92753317Am fairly sure a bunch of recasts of stuff seen around are due to the efforts of staff 'stealing' aka rescuing these out of production bits and pieces.
Just been looking back over when GW briefly had the Middle Earth license in the 80s, before Mithril.I would like to make an Army of the Dead for the modern SBG, and since that's scaled at 25-28mm realistic (or was, newer releases are bigger), I figured I might throw in a few old Citadel pieces.I quite like this Aragorn the King miniature.>>92753356This one in particular is cool
Also, digging around in the history of LotR miniatures (Grenadier and Citadel had rights at the same time, then Mithril took over and are still making 32mm LotR stuff)I didn't know Mithril and Prince August were the same company in Ireland https://toysoldierfactory.ie/about-us/
>>92753356With advent of modern and third party bits this style of mini would be fun to convert, just mix in some 3D printed bits and some less high quality third party stuff and it could make for a really cool warband type mini.
>>92753105I was talking about people who play, not online folk, and outside U.K that is not always true, since a lot of folk who will try retro hammer will be younger ones, while old gits will more likely then not fucking hate it, like legit look down upon anyone playing it. So ya, I nu40k players are easier to get to think about something like old warhammer, since they will more likely then old grogs actually not like modern editions and be willing to give old ones a shot. As for the whole pride flag minis stuff, I don't mind, the bright colors do remind me of old mini styles and frankly we need more of that.
Since weekend came up, might as well ask, what ya lot are working on? Weather here is fucked so I am probably skipping a week on painting so gonna have to build something instead.
>>92753375Oh shit I still have my Sam Gamgee from this line.
>>92753602>a lot of folk who will try retro hammer will be younger ones, while old gits will more likely then not fucking hate it, like legit look down upon anyone playing it.As an old grog in his early 50's I can categorically state this is somewhere between complete headcanon and utter bullshit.The difference is that old grogs actually played the previous editions back in the day. Almost every 40k thread will have a bunch of balding dadbods like me waxing rhapsodical about how much better 40k was in RT/2e/3e/4e/5e (you'll never hear a peep about 6e+ though). I love seeing young'uns take up 2e-4e and to watch the light dawn for them that 40k wasn't always a painful slog of gotchas, rerolls, shitty balance and multiple exceptions to almost every rule. >As for the whole pride flag minis stuff, I don't mindLike, of course not, like, you're, like, a zoomer.
>>92753317If I were to guess I'd say they destroyed their production moulds and retained their master moulds and masters. There is zero point in retaining production moulds if you are not producing.
>>92753806Oh no dude, this is because I am talking about scene outside U.K so those people...didn't play those editions or didn't like them. So they just look down on anyone who plays them. So again, it's different scene, different people, but ya, it exists. I don't know how bad it is in U.S, but I could see a lot of communities there being wacky like that too. Also, as someone who has played 5th, ya it's not...best, ironically one of those games where modern equivalent in horus heresy is just plain better game.
>>92753806By the way, not really a zoomer, since I am not american, the funny bit of thing no one is aware of those labels are for U.S. only, they don't actually apply outside of it. If we go off that system, it's technically closer to say that some kid in say....russia is one generation "older" so it's not a zoomer but closer to gen X or even milenial. Also boomers didn't exist in a lot of parts of the world due to world being fucked.It's not really thread related, but it is a funny thing people aren't aware of.
>>92751985Ya, 2nd ed is wild when you play it, there are some parts that in modern eye I would probably change...but then you tend to end up with a game that is way too close to something like numunda, where you put in alternating activations and reshuffle strategem cards
>>92753891>the funny bit of thing no one is aware of those labels are for U.S. only, they don't actually apply outside of itI'm Australian and I think of all you dumbarse kids with your stupid opinions as zoomers. And your opinions on how Gen X feels about earlier versions of 40k are definitely stupid opinions.
>>92753648just worked on the base for a speeder, slowly painting up this techmarine, and I have to make a base for this dreadnought
>>92753938And for the most part you would be incorrect. I am also not the kid, I just didn't play 40k as a kid so I don't have any form of nostaligia for any part of it, so I don't particularly enjoy editions that were kinda crap. But ya, some old editions are fine, though again, with no rose tinted glasses it is funny to see when some of the modern takes on old systems are just plain better then the original. Mind you, hard to beat rogue trader, the whole feel of the game is great, and if you modernize some of the less....good bits, it's perfect system. (That is, make rules a bit easier to use but work exactly the same)
>>92753954big respect for that type of basing I love making those, though I don't have cooper rods so I made do with simpler wires. Also, got to love those goofy old techmarines, I do kinda want to get one eventually just as sorta little repair dude for random RT forces I sometimes play.
>>92753648Get through some painting queue(90s warzone, RT orks, 2e marines) and am going to build some terrain tomorrow after my pathfinder game. That's my plan for the weekend.
>>92753891>I'm not a zoomer because I'm not americanThis is the wildest cope I've heard in a while, shine on you crazy zoomer.
>>92714234>It's a real mystery to me that everyone seems to have just stopped scanning old codices and WD articles circa 2010 - it's been the same crappy compressed copies circulating for over a decade, why does nobody do fresh scans of these? It's not like 3E codices are hard to track down.Well, I'd gladly be all over it if I had the money. But being in Russia - well, it just sucks. The delivery is both expensive as fuck and extra long. Still waiting for those two White Dwarves for now.
>>92753602As an actual butt loving fag who has been around long enough to remember /tg/ occasionally stood for /totally gay/, I don't really want the little toy representations of casually genocidal, child-soldier indoctrinating and abusing, chemically castrated, utterly psychotic, theocratic super soldiers waving a pride flag for me. That bit seems to get missed by a lot of the younger crowd. Weirdly and depressingly, most of the reformed-GW grogs in their late 40s and older I know IRL are Bolt Action lovers who don't care about old 40k or proper historical games, now that's utterly perverse..>>92753954I can't believe we used to try and put these and the successor land speeders, and jetbikes even, on regular flying bases. What the fuck were we thinking.
>>92754362To be honest, if you read space marine, space marines were already gay as fuck, like, let's face it, space marines are extremely homoerotic, so making them more gay is really just "return to tradition"
>>92754362I have some BFG ships on flight bases and decided to just magnetize them and replace the stems when they kept breaking under their own weight, I do not trust this brick to stay up on one of those
>>92754362You are describing the sorta grogs I have problem with....The ones that just sorta are boring as fuck.
>>92754362I don't follow modern 40k, but I get the impression they've been toning down the oppressive, theocratic elements of SM since Rowboat showed up again - I may well be wrong but all the modern 40k I see feels like it has the moral depth of a Marvel movie.
>>92754639even before rawbutt came back up, it's not like they've had the Imperium do any real big genocides or anything lately. Most of the stories of the humans doing shitty things are older and they don't focus on them anymore, it's mostly just defensive actions and the occasional "They lost so they nuked the planet"
>>92754383You know it baby
>>92754639Not really, the stories are just as opressive as ever, some are a bit worse, but quite a few just double down on it, it's just a lot of people don't read about shit they are talking about. Also, as it's one I read most, new necromunda doubled down on that shit a lot and frankly, it's great, it's only flaw is that scalies don't have rules yet, othewrise numunda is really in most aspects an upgrade as a game and in terms of fluff.
>>92754665They been releasing warhammer horror, and while half were nah, others were quite good and surprisingly like a third of them are about horrors that imperium does or made. Also, they finally noted how fucked up servitors are.
>>92754383military gay is like prison gay, it ain't nothing to be proud of. Unless you're a Theban, I guess that's gay military though rather than military gay.>>92754691>>92754679Yeah the Imperium is as monstrous as ever, but a lot of it is buried in novels. But that's just a big part of how crap and worthless the Codex system is these days.
>>92754825I think it's much much simpler then it being burried in novels, since even codexes tend to mention that, it's more that a lot of people like always don't read anything, because I recall talking with some people and they didn't believe that digganobz are reference in new necromunda, because no one reads those books lore bits.
>>92754845*fluff not lore, fucking hell, forgot the proper term.
>>92754899What's the difference?
>>92754925something to do with Jervis Johnson murdering kittens
>>92754925saying fluff annoys certain kind of fag that only knows fluff from memes and claim to be "lore masters"
Magpie and Old Lead man. Nobody is doing it like him/
>>92755001I love the intricacies of the 40k setting and I’ve made a sector with a history stretching back to its liberation during the great crusade to play out campaigns in and I FUCKING HATE the term “loremaster.” It’s so pretentious. In almost all cases the so-called loremaster is just a man-shaped stain who can recall a few obscure facts from dogshit novels and who has done nothing useful or interesting with his pedantry—no interesting yourdudes army, no fun personalized setting for him and his buddies to battle, fucking nothing.
>>92755047Hence me liking term fluff, you can know fluff and make stuff up, and while you can know quite a lot of it, it doesn't sound as up your own ass. I myself did start by reading summaries and what not so I was for a time that type almost "lore master" but then I got into table top, so nowdays my knowledge of weird obscure bits of lore bits is more used to make armies that are "lore friendly" but completely and absolutely fucking with brains of people who only know the more generic stuff. I do adore my beastmen, my weird niche abhumans and some of the wackier ork stuff that is not well known
>>92755114My nigga.
>>92755136Mind you, this also has lead to weird side thing where I am not as bothered by changes to fluff or new things that appear, because I know enough weird things and how fucking unstable and messy the entire thing is that new things are just new toys for making wacky people with - like I quite enjoy new version of goliaths because it means random pile of gangers with bit of hidden tech can now create all kinds of wacky crap to throw into some IG regiment or dark heresy campaign.
>>92755014A real legend - I loved his Helmawr gangers.
>>92755114I mix my Warhammer with Star Wars, Battletech and whatever else comes to my mind. I'm not bothered by the changed, because by now my headcanon is barely Warhammer - I remixed it a bit too hard. Who gives a fuck either way.I prefer the word lore. No reasons, just sounds better to my ears. Loremaster sounds absolutely hilarious though. Loremaster. Fluffbaron. Duke of imaginary tales.Thanks God I never encountered a kind of people who prefered to call themselves that way. Sounds like a complete lack of self-awareness and good taste, all neatly combined in just one word.
>>92755257Looks cool. Any more pics of these guys?
>>92755279https://magpieandoldlead.blogspot.com/search/label/Confrontation
>>92755294Thank you.
>>92754925To be overly analytical about it:Fluff (of Fluff and Crunch aka background fluff and crunchy bits - the game mechanics) is what it used to be before it took on an unweighty amount of importance (probably due to marketing) and became 'lore'. If you look at how the old developers like Rick Priestly and the others talk about the game settings in interviews, they would describe it as fluff because they were literally just making shit up, often as they go along during a game or at times they were handed a miniature and told to make up what it is and does for a publication deadline the same day. And these developers and were very happy to encourage people to do the same and spent many an article in publications doing so. 40k and Warhammer Fantasy were made with a vast amount of room to play around in because the settings were unashamedly fluff to sell miniatures, just it turned out that Priestly in particular was very talented at knowing how to steal the right blend of things to mix together to make a compelling sandbox. And I think, if you're a creative type, a part of the Oldhammer feel that's compelling is that treating the settings as fluff and the licence to fuck around; they're full of cool details to give the players and GMs ideas of things to do and stories to tell. But also gloriously stupid fun shit like Bouncers.
>>92755376I think it was Rick in one of the filmdeg interviews where he mentioned that a lot of the new design team for GW come from backgrounds in board/card games. That would make sense since the whole 'ongoing storyline that progresses through expansions' was never how 40k worked but has been standard in MtG etc for years.
>>92755440Similarly, Blanche laments that the new miniature designers and artists don’t know classic art but are instead simply fans of Warhammer.Fuck this gay earth. And also query why GW thinks that hiring someone like that is a good idea?
>>92755594They print money and pay the design staff less than UK supermarket workers.
>>92748935Strange you put this up. Was just showing someone the joys of the old, campy miniatures compared to the soulless, flat feeling ones in more modern Necromunda. I understand, it can make people take the game more seriously, but the old ones have a certain flair that feels more authentic.
>>92756714Back in the day, plastic Escher were a wish I didn't think would ever happen. I hate the new models. I hate them so much. Those fucking shoes and lumpy muscles. Even the bendy guns and holes in the old metals had some charm and could be worked with. The amount of effort it takes to make each model mildly disappointing as opposed to awful makes every modelling session a chore.
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>>92757500This stuff is relevant to your interests yeah /grog/?
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This might be a stupid question but where or how can I actually see what minis I'll need to play 2nd edition aside from obviously the codex. I want to play Eldar but since it's basically unobtanium I have no idea where I should start.
>>92757531Yes.>>92757572What do you specifically mean by what do you need?
>>92757952What about the artwork? I've been going through old scans and cropping out and cleaning up various bits of art that catch my eye.
>>92757572Please elaborate since i dont think "Get eldar models for eldar" will be very helpful to you.
>>92757978Dunno about anyone else but I've been saving it as its popped up.
>>92757999I could dump it all in a mega folder or something once I get through some more books, I've just been doing it for personal joy anyway. Its cathartic.
>>92757572You could use the white dwarf supplements from that time period. That, along with the codex, should give you an eye on what they looked like before and maybe let you figure out what you can get away with as far as using new models to sub.
>>92746318Nope, you were allowed to deploy hidden, but not in overwatch. There was the strategy card 'ambush' though, which allowed to do this with one unit which gained some special deployment as well.>>92746474 is incorrect. Would be too powerful to give the player going second up to a whole extra shooting phose in a game of four turns.
>>92754925‘Fluff’ is the bits and pieces of fiction and background info, ‘lore’ is the overarching facts of the setting that fluff creates.
>>92757572If you look up the 2nd ed. Battle Bible, it should have all of the codices, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. If you're really struggling, you might need to bodge ST stats with 2nd ed. Wargear, but I don't know how feasible that is. Do check the white dwarfs, as they often harvested for new minis in their articles, battle reports, and also had strategy and tactics articles for using armies, many of which were questionable, but should give you an idea of units, you can then search them, look at planner blog and forums etc. Generally you'll find people happy to help you; We play 2nd because we live the game, and want to share that. It's totally different to modern gw culture, which part of the reason for the grog/new split - it's not just the minis, but the entire approach to the hobby. Good luck.
>>92757410Goodness, I love those two-tier dreads.
>>92757572Do you mean you're having a hard time finding the 2nd ed Eldar codex? Because I can give you a link if so
>>92757572Eldar for a long time had a lot of old models still in use, and only recently were they being replaced, but for the most part guardians, aspect warriors and their psykers are mostly the same today as they were in 2ndWarp spiders are still same models.
>>92753408Look like something you could use for a 'Rifts' RPG game as a prop, given the number of skull shaped vehicles already in the artwork.
>>92748319Try your local aquarium for fine sand in different grades
I'm looking to have a few test games of rogue trader soon. The rules don't actually seem that severe, but is there anything good to know before I start? Has anyone made quick reference sheets for it or anything?I do have to ask because I can't search anything for it without getting results for the videogame instead.
Whilst I enjoy the 80s even though I wasn't born, and don't mind the red era, it's the late 90s grime that is my true home
>>92761780If you have a physical copy, hopefully there's the reference sheets for the intro scenario in it. Otherwise they're at the back of the pdf, in blue.I'd say also: which version of Rogue Trader? Because of all the supplements. Personally I wouldn't want to play without the Compendium and Battle Manual at the very least, though I'd skip the vehicle manual. The Battle Manual has the most concentrated block of rules updates and improvements, plus reference sheets for the updated shooting and close combat rules at the back.
>>92754679>Newcromunda fluff fanAhhhh, so you're a dipshit with no taste then, gotcha, gotcha. Nice to clear that up.
>>92761897GorkaMorka, BFG, Mordheim, Index Astartes, 6th WHFB, late 3rd/4th 40K - the late 90's to mid-oughts period has more concentrated awesome in it than any other period of GW.
>>92763006Dude, we all know you didn't read anything, stop pretending like same fluff being expanded is bad....Of course, we can also just assume you never played necromunda (either old or new) and are just a zoomer pretending to be a grog. So please, don't shit up the thread and leave.
>>92762610Still sorta miffed there isn't battle bible type project but for RT, but I get why the entire thing is a bit less...organised.
>>92763178Yeah, would be cool to have everything collated, but I think the FBoTA and the other compilation books cover everything pretty well right?
>>92763217True, it would be just convenient to have army lists in one book for those lazy fuckers that don't wanna make up army from whole cloth using points system from the core book.
>>92763178There's Renegade Scout.
>>92763531Oh I know, I like and play it a lot, but I do like idea of using RT lists in that system.
>>92763636Ah, fair enough. Thought you meant the system rather than lists.
>>92763650Nah I legit wouldn't mind having equipment and rules for each faction and army lists on hand.
Hmm, actually, how terrible is battlescribe in terms of making files? I think it could be neat to transfer some of the RT army lists to that, but not sure how it operates and if it's hard to learn to edit rosters?
Apparently Based Ivan aka Nordic Weasel is thinking of working on Renegade Scout Version 3. https://nordicweasel.posthaven.com/v3-renegade-scout-aka-the-futureHaving played a bunch of v.2 and houseruled the fuck out of it, maybe I should send him a message with stuff I noted that needed cleaning up and ideas I played with?
>>92765003>maybe I should send him a message with stuff I noted that needed cleaning up and ideas I played with?Couldn't hurt, Ivan seems receptive to that sort of thing
>>92763006Newcromunda isnt bad, I like how its expanded the lore for the most part, the only real part I'm not mad keen on is how the House Gangs now function really as a paramilitary force of the Hive City houses directly rather than it just being "bum fights in the Underhive fighting over some junk". I did play N95 for about 5 years beforehand too, so its not like I didnt have any experience of it. Oh yeah, Ash Wastes stuff is a bit "meh". Don't really like the vehicle stuff, just doesn't play in a particularly fun fashion, can't put my finger on exactly why I don't find it entertaining either.
>>92753356>>92753349>>92749014>>92748860These all from an old white dwarf? If so which?Also please post more.
>>92765646ash wastes was a major fuck up, all the gangs should have had rules for vehicles at launch, not spread out over 4 books and apocrypha.
I first played 40k in 5th. What did I miss in 2nd-4th? What's the appeal of each edition?
>>92768034Stay around and find out. I recommend trying out 2nd edition Battle for Armageddon tutorial scenarios if you want to see how 2nd edition plays out
>>92765003Really? That's awesome. Is there any current way or something in the works to allow for side armor vehicle rules?>Make a few rationalisations of the game rules to slim things down just a tiny bit. It'll still be a pretty detailed game, but try to shift some of that detail towards having more tactical options and less stat fiddling.What exactly does he mean by this?
>>92765646I think your feelings were noted by the rules team since in last core rulebook they released few variant rules for numunda such as smaller and more limited starting gangs to be more in like with old mundas "bunch of bums fighting each other" and they also made options to replace modern rules with more classic ones. Also ya, I guess outcast gangs is sorta fix for whole "low life" angle, where your gang can range from idiots worshiping a rat to bunch of mutants.
>>92749098I love it! And John's creativity is very inspiring. Speaking of Filmdeg, the genuine friendship and care you see between Tumas and John is exactly the kind of friendship I hope all of mine mature into.
>>92753408Heh.
>>92753902I think a good balance would be to have IGYG movement then alternating shooting
>>92768629That is how 2018 kill-team done that and it was...fine? I found it a bit better as alternating everything
>>92768563It s more just the general availability of super-deadly weaponry across your gang right from the get go, and from the House trading list available from every battle thereafter that irks me somewhat. Nothing really feels "rare" anymore, even when you do roll up high on the trading post after battle, you're generally better off getting upgrades rather than weapons which tend to be for the most part side-grades from what you can just grab on your house list. Anyway, I alleviated a lot of my concerns by just maining Cawdor, so I can still be the N95 hobos at least in spirit. Also play Delaque, because their new lore is just kinda neat, plus the Nacht-Ghuls, Psy-Gheists & Spektors are pretty cool minis. Deadly as all hell though, especially the Brute.
>>92768563Part of the problem is the creation of a new norm and the expectations that go with it. If someone likes the Escher on jet bikes, or having brutes, but them, wants to play with them, and then goes to a group who are like 'nah, we don't play like that.' It's just an unnecessary conflict and bad experience for at someone, if not everyone in group, because the fundamentals of how you play are different now.With brutes - say this was Oldmunda and something like that happened; the entire campaign or sub -campaign would be the gangs trying to steal it, kidnap or bribe the people running it, or finding the tech needed to repair it and having a probability of fumbling and blowing it up, themselves with it. The brute would be an end game reward, still janky, and something to carry into the next and advanced campaign. Now it's just there, and if someone wants to play it alongside people who are trying to keep to old spirit of the game, they can.You either have to turn players away, or let them in and be dissatisfied. Neither are good.
>>92768120Technically side armour is in the rules, it's -1 to the Defence (toughness) value and I think -2 on the rear for anything not a light vehicle? You know what, that should go on the list as something to make clearer as that took me a minute to find too originally. That and I think cleaning up the language around critical damage on vehicles; I was never certain if it was one critical damage per success or any success equals leads to a single critical damage roll. Largely because the former made vehicles ridiculously fragile. Same with twin linked weapons and how they work differently on infantry and vehicles, that took some digging because one is in a box on one page and the other is in regular column across the page from it under just 'firing from vehicles'. It's the little things. I think for stat fiddling it's stuff like when you get "Attackers with 5+ Power (strength) may increase the Armor Penetration of a Melee weapon by 1." That stuff is good for character and it makes sense but it often gets lost in the shuffle when playing because you really can't be expected to constantly remember all that stuff, even with references. And this is still much better about than original RT where you've got problems like specific weapon rules changing a bit depending on what page/chart you're looking at. >>92767376It's from the Citadel Miniatures Modelling Guide, which was part of a set of books they did during the '90s of which the most well known was the how to make wargames terrain one, then a couple of painting guides for fantasy and 40k. This one was probably the least well known (hell I only found it last year or so thanks to this thread) as it was basically how to convert miniatures: the book.
>>92747283On this. Does anyone know where to get the old Chaos Marines? I cant seem to find them anywhere. I'm not even necessarily a /grog/ guy typically but the new Chaos Marines are the hobby-hostile, overbusied tedious boxes in the range right now. I cant seem to find the old 3e/4e guys anywhere.
>>92769839I just rechecked ebay and found 2 for north of $150 so I'll rephrase to "can't find them for a price a sane man would pay.">>92747469
>>92769839What I did back in the day was 'convert up ' regular marines. A lot of the CSM look is the shoulder pads, so even if you wanted to do minimal work, changing that would be a big difference.
>>92769300I get you there, hence me thinking of newest book, they put in variant rule for campaign where you make so gangs can't start with rare stuff and you get less money so getting strong things is even harder. >>92769391And I fully get you there anon, mind you, it's up to arbitartor on that, you can just rule out that some things aren't a thing in a campaign, though I am myself partial to brutes because I do play ogryn gang and frankly, it's good bit of chaotic fun, it's not good but it is fun
>>927698393D printing could help, knightmare too. Knightmare got some old school marine minis, in white metal, they are however not super cheap so might want to wait until one of their sales occur. Printing got some minis, like one or two, but you could as other anons point out, get some 3D printed or even actual marines in plastic, and put on CSM bits either printed or found.I myself plan on making a CSM army in the future, got some plastic berserkers and other minis about, gonna try to mix that with 3D printed bits to see what happens.
Check out these BA vehicle conversions I saw on Instagram
>>92770650Oh yeah, the Tony Carrusco's Blood Angel 4x4. I've been ascing about that particular image witht that particular conversion about half-a-dozen grogs ago, because it seems it inspired tons of land-speeder-to-quad conversions.
>>92753031Nice bait, retard
>>92770650That army had a converted AT-ST titan right?
>>92769893You can use modern ones for that or just go for simple spiky ones via medium of 3D printing
>>92745909anyone able to point me towards a download of the eavy metal Citadel Miniatures Modelling Guide?
This is such a good thread. Sad to see it go.
>>92764597It’s a fucking nightmare because the guy who programmed it is a fucking dipshit supreme.
>>92765646If you can afford walkers/jetbikes/road trains/pet giant bugs you’re not really poor and fighting for survival any more.OG Necro always felt like a scrabble to keep your guys fed, armed and patched up. That kind of desperate struggle doesn’t align well with people riding flying fucking motorcycles.
>>92747283At least here in the 3rd world, you can get recasts as old as early 80s. Most SM are about 1-2 USD a model. Quality is OK.
>>92775158As an ausfag I get gouged by GW and they have some extremely robust controls in place to make sure I can’t order from cheap overseas suppliers.I’ve often wondered what the prices are like in poorfag southeast Asian countries, and whether it might be worth flying to one of them, buying half the shop at ‘40% off AUD’ prices, then shipping to Aus and reselling.They can’t stop tourists buying huge amounts of GW stuff in person, after all.
While people often talk about how Rogue Trader was proto-40k and "not canon" for later editions, so when I finally read it for myself it was shocking to see how much of setting was essentially there already. Maybe 75% was in the core, including many small details I thought for sure must have been later additions. Some essential bits were footnotes or missing but were covered in extra material, so by '89 it was more like 90% and by '91 the setting is hardly distinguishable from 2nd ed 40k.Of course there were some critical changes/retcons in later edition, and of course huge changes to the wargame itself, but it's amazing how broad and fleshed out it all was from the beginning. I also found some new appreciation to later authors who keep referencing and reusing 1st ed lore and elements.
>While people often talk about how Rogue Trader was proto-40k and "not canon" for later editionsliterally never happens, did you think Laserburn?
>>92776459Only people completely unfamiliar with 40k pre-3rd/4th would hold that opinion - I've seen it voiced and it's always immediately apparent that they're parroting something they heard third-hand by some loretuber or some shit.The 40k setting pretty much crystalized with the Realm of Chaos books - there is some stuff before that which doesn't line up with modern 40k (the Eye of Terror is an obvious example) but I can't think of any completely setting-breaking changes after that point, especially as pertains to the Imperium/Chaos. Not sure if the Eldar got their updated background before or after Slaves to Darkness, would have been close to the same time.
>>92776788No no, it does happen I have seen people say it, those people were however unaware of what 40k was.
>>92777484>Not sure if the Eldar got their updated background before or after Slaves to Darkness, would have been close to the same time.Yeah, that was in mid-1990, so right around the same time as Lost and the Damned released
>>92753954Oh hey, Slannon!
>>92765646>Delaque are ACKSHOLEE an agendered gestalt consciousness controlled by psychic ancient alien cthulu-fishmen who live in the planet's core>Van Saar ACKSHOLEE have a whole functional STC system that can equip them with lost or banned-by-personal-degree-of-the-Emperor tech like Rad weaponry which they've kept totally secret on one of the Imperium's main production worlds despite openly using its fruits in gang warfare>The setting is no longer about hardscrabble YourDudes grubbing about in the Underhive for status and the desperate hope of striking it rich, it's a Poor Man's Game Of Thrones ripoff about the Helmawr Clan's internal rivalries tied explicitly into the shitty 40K nulore that you are *permitted* to participate inNucromunda is genuine garbage from a fluff perspective. I can understand people preferring it as a game even if I don't agree, but preferring its fluff is a 1000% brainlet take.
>>92778737Couldn't have said it better myselfI think Nucromunda coper might be a concern troll
>>92778737That is really just you coping with the fact that you can do all of that stuff you want...you just have to actually read the rules...and fluff...and ironically...play the game. I think you might just be someone mad for no reason. Could you please leave /grog/ we don't need people like you here.
>>92778737Darn, is that greentext for real? I was about to disagree with the anon abov who mentioned grav-bikes, because grav-bikes can written off as simply being, you know, hi-tech sci-fi stuff that even hobos own in the setting - and I'm not against stretching it that far in Warhammer, albeit some other things can tick me off, like bolters...But, anyway, that greentext is fucking out there. Yet another fine example how everything gets more complicated and so childish at the same time. The fuck is wrong with people who write lore for things these days around, how do they even get their positions. An absolute no-brains could write s decent background for gritty gang warfare.
>>92778878That is the irony, there is that background...anon just never reads it. As they said, you have to make stuff yourself...and they can't.
>>92778865>if you ignore everything that's bad then it isn't badIt's you who should leave.
>>92779023I am sorry but you are a whinny little bitch here. Grow up, stop being an angry zoomer.
>>92778878>Darn, is that greentext for real?Unlikely. I haven't looked at modern Necromunda at all, but every time I see someone whine about modern fluff it turns out to be complete nonsense based on the fact that they heard it from some youtuber who read it on a wiki written by a child with an overactive imagination.
>>92779078It is, mostly, there is bit of fluff about possibly origins of wacky shit with delaque, but if you read it, it's probably made up or bullshit, since entire thing is written as "here are like 3 mysterious origins, pick one" So you know, good set up for your dudes. As for van saar, ya, they got STC, do hide and murder the shit out of anyone who knows of it, but that one is really more throw back to some of early 40k novels, where random worlds would have functional STCs hidden from imperium in most random spots. Also they seem to ignore books and campaigns and fluff dedicated to low life gang warfare and entire game types dedicated to it, which is forgivable if you never touched a book and just use second hand info.I will be honest, I do find bitching about numunda in grog thread funny, because it's a game that it's designers play and enjoy, you know...how some people would say you should make a game...it's almost like these people actually hate old style of game making.
>>92779173>I will be honest, I do find bitching about numunda in grog thread funny, because it's a game that it's designers play and enjoy, you know...how some people would say you should make a game...it's almost like these people actually hate old style of game making.Bad writing is bad writing, whether it's new or old. It's not like everything old is automatically flawless, oldhammer had it's bumps as well.
>>92779334Saying it's bad writting really comes off as someone who is really just either boring, or more likely, never read the primary source. I will be honest, it's usually the latter. I like nu mundas fluff, but again, I like it because it reminds me of good bits of rogue trader, because let's face it, it's basically just trying to repeat ideas from that.
>Russian troon who was here to say "actually the rainbow flags are the fun gamers" is now here to say "actually Nucromunda is good"Please log off
>>92779362It just seems that your "good bits" of Rogue Trader are my "bad bits" of Rogue Trader. And that's about it.
>>92779362>Saying it's bad writting really comes off as someone who is really just either boring, or more likely, never read the primary source.>the only way someone could possibly disagree with me is if they either a) have a character flaw or b) haven't actually read the material we're talking aboutYou are such a massive faggot lmao
>>92779430Or me just having pattern recognition, since you know, that tends to work fairly well. Also, let's face it, the whinner is a zoomer, because only zoomers complain that much.
>>92780261Everyone can see you're trolling, and it's just sad.
>92779173>92779362>92780261I thought the ellipsis transvestite fucked off already.
>>92778878It's real. And "everyone who points out how retarded I am is a fakegrog" anon is a either lying or just too much of a dipshit to understand the presentation of the text, which repeatedly *asserts* that "nobody knows" and drops in a few alternatives that "some hivers believe", but several times presents the ancient alien fishmen fluff from an omniscient narrator perspective and also, you know, they made the special units for Delaque be floating cyborg-fish aliens...Nucromunda is written for the absolute worst kind of Le Heckin Ebin Whaky Wahoo Wahey RT fans, the type of faggots who like to randomly interject with their opinion that 40K was better when a half-Eldar was the chief librarian of the ultramarines and the Imperial Fists had literal shit-eating as part of their initiation ritual.
>>92777484Well I'm a 3rdkiddy and it was certainly my impression from hearing others talk about it, but I can still see their point. In particular someone quickly reading the core rulebook would walk away with impression that it was an early draft of the setting. As you say, it seems to have crystallized shortly afterward through White Dwarf articles and Realm of Chaos. Setting-wise, you could split it between "Rogue Trader" as the proto-40k of the core book and "1st Ed 40k" for everything that came afterward.Of course, a lot of discrepancy looks like "what the average Imperial denizen might know about the Imperium and the Galaxy" but others are less explainable.Some things that were definitely very different in the core I've noticed:(it's going to be 3 posts because of char limits)
>>92781208-Space Marines weren't gene-engineered superhumans, they were really just blinged-out human soldiers/warrior-monks augmented with the best space roids and bionics available. The only implant mentioned is the Black Carapace (which wasn't even an interface for the power armor but simply dermal armor.) I think they weren't even supposed to be taller than baseline humans or anything, just their armor made them bulkier. Naturally there were also no apothecaries collecting geneseed (though there were "medics" with their apothecarion room, they were just regular field medics) White Dwarf articles later revealed the geneseed process and the other role of the medics, alluded to saints/heroes of the chapter called Primarchs, talked about the original 20 chapters of the First Founding etc, but I think it took until Realms of Chaos for the 30k backstory of the Legions to be revealed, at that point the basic canon of the Horus Heresy was fixed. Of course the original 20 chapters were not the same as the 20 legions. -Related to the above, the Emperor was in the golden throne because he had burnt himself out using his powers to run the Imperium/Astronomican. For the HH lore it was changed to him burning himself out killing warp-infused Horus. Of course his backstory (the shamans, sensei etc) wasn't revealed in core. He also sounded somewhat "healthier" in core (an entombed corpse artificially kept alive by eating souls, but a lively one granting audiences etc) rather than the silent cadaver we had later.
>>92781220-Adeptus Mechanicus wore white robes (red was reserved for the High Lords of Terra) and weren't quite as covered in tubes and mechadendrites. I mean everyone in RT had tubes and bionics but they looked like everyone else. They were also more generic knowledge seekers/technomonks rather than cyborg fetishists. A picture in the corebook depicts someone who looked a lot like a modern techpriest, but he was heralded as "Pontifex Maximus" and the red robe must have indicated a High Lord (Ecclesiarch?)-AdMech were based on Terra, Mars was the shipyard of the Imperial Navy instead of Luna, which I don't think got mentioned at all. This too seems to have been corrected in HH lore. The setting also seemed less population-dense (no Hive Worlds?)-The Ecclesiarchy seemed almost like an afterthought (they're mentioned near the end of the corebook as newcomers) because the whole "Priesthood of Earth" had religious trappings already, pretty much everyone was a priest/monk. There are also references to a whole pantheon (characters mentioning "the Gods") with the Emperor being deified within it. Really seemed like a calque on Fantasy's Empire religion and the status of the Cult of Sigmar.-EVERYONE carried ceremonial weapons, robes were typical. The 17th century aristocrat aesthetic for lords/navy captains/rogue traders wasn't yet conceived, everyone had a twisted scifi look.-Custodes had the half-naked look with black cloaks (again, red was for High Lords), no golden armor.-The Inquisition hasn't changed one bit except for later being split into Ordos. Assassins were fairly generic cyberninjas.-The high language of the Imperium was "Tech" (the English of technical textbooks) spoken mostly by the AdMechs, the common tongue was derived from Tech but with "Oriental" influences (Arabic? Chinese?)-Dreadnoughts were just mech suits with regular pilots rather than sarcophagi. Hence the "tactical dreadnought armor". Also available to the Guard. Also robots!
>>92781273-The basic enemies were "naturally"-occurring mutants, rogue psykers, unruly xenos, and regular anarchistic rebels (often in tandem), giving it a very Judge Dredd feel. Chaos wasn't an enemy. That said, there were hints of it with talk of "Warp Entities" channeled through psykers and that the Emperor was trying to guide mankind towards becoming a mature psychic race while avoiding the perils of the warp, so maybe it's just reflecting how Chaos was hidden knowledge in the setting. The renegade "Lost Worlds" around the Eye of Terror might have been similar foreshadowing. Of course Chaos became more prominent later, and the Ordo Malleus and Grey Knights were introduced.-The Imperium seemed way less xenocidal back then. Some species were "exterminate on sight" but otherwise consorting with xenos was less outrageous (trade, mercenaries, half-eldar...), although living alongside xenos was a renegade thing.-Orks were intended more like the Fantasy greenskins and not quite the goofy overgrown fungoid ecology we know and love (but those were 100% incarnated in 'Ere We Go/Freebooterz/Waaagh, Orks really haven't changed a bit since then)-Eldar were just some broken race of elven space pirates, though this was probably just the imperial viewpoint because they were fleshed out fully in later material.-Ogryn were more orky and like "Space Ogres" even though they were indeed (ab)human. Of course ratlings ("halflings") and squats completed the Fantasy roster. -Genestealers were originally just xenomorph ripoffs with a chestburster lifecycle and genetic assimilation. White Dwarf introduced the familiar lifecycle of Genestealer cults, even hinted that there was more to them. ("No one knows the true purpose of the genestealer cults...) Tyranids were already biotech space locusts in core, but Hive Tyrants were the hermaphroditic queens of the Hive Fleets.That's about it I think, everything else was already in (Sororitas were in core!) or a much later addition.
>>92781287>Orks really haven't changed a bit since thenOh thank god does that mean the rollercoasters are still canon
>>92781287Oh I did forget something, a major technology of the Imperium back then was crystal tech, both for interfaces and for batteries (the crystals' structure shifts to accumulate energy from heat or the sun.)These seems to have been the original lasgun power cells, and it's why you can charge them by just leaving them in sunlight or on a campfire. I always thought that was one of the goofier aspects of the setting so I was surprised that it made more sense in RT. It's also why crystal batteries Later the crystal tech became more exclusive to Eldars and plasma became the main human energy source (besides more conventional ones.)Also Gellard Fields weren't a thing I believe, though warp travel was otherwise similar and there's a reference to the warp drives being covered in runes (but it's presented as generic techno-superstition)
>>92781371*It's also why large crystal batteries are said to power the example fortress-monastery
>>92781220>Space Marines weren't gene-engineered superhumans, they were really just blinged-out human soldiers/warrior-monks augmented with the best space roids and bionics available.False.
>>92778737>>92778767I didn't say I "preferred" Newcromunda lore though did I anon?
>>92778878Yeah, no, that's actually 100% real lore for Delaque and Van Saar now. Its all a bit silly. Goliath and Escher are still pretty cool and not completely ridiculous, Escher being 80s glam-rock techno-punk Amazons who make shit loads of drugs, but their men are all drooling idiots, Goliath are the clone slaves of the Escher and Van Saar made to work in crap conditions, so the revolted and made their own creatine-fueled House, Cawdor are pretty much just the underhive binmen now but with honest to god faith powers, Orlock...are about as boring as Orlock always were...shit I cant even say anything memorable about them.
>>92781404"Sophisticated biochem and psycho-surgery" isn't the Space Marine induction process later presented in White Dwarf articles, it was just space roids and indoctrination.Yeah, it calls them "superhuman" here but there was nothing particularly non-human about them. It's really obvious if you read the whole lore instead of fixating on one blurb.There was nothing special mentioned about the Custodes either, they were simply elite, perfectly human bodyguards.
>>92781273>Adeptus Mechanicus wore white robes (red was reserved for the High Lords of Terra) and weren't quite as covered in tubes and mechadendrites.Why are they always depiceted as either wearing, what looks to me like a Cawdor mask, or with weird goat shaped heads back in the day?
>>92781273>Adeptus Mechanicus wore white robes (red was reserved for the High Lords of TerraFalse.
>>92781273>and weren't quite as covered in tubes and mechadendrites.False.
>>92781540Actually read my post, moron:>A picture in the corebook depicts someone who looked a lot like a modern techpriest, but he was heralded as "Pontifex Maximus" and the red robe must have indicated a High Lord (Ecclesiarch?)
>>92781523The WD article came out 3 or 4 months afterwards. I don't see any reason to doubt it's the same thing, just without any detail.And there was hardly anything at all mentioned about the Custodes, except that they stayed in the palace.
>>92781523>its called super human>but its not actually superhuman You can admit you were wrong about some things. Its okay. Your main points were largely correct.
>>92781585>its only part of the thing I just said was barely mentioned Make up your mind.
>>92781540Was there any indication anywhere that that was intended to be admech, or is that just something we assume due to the context of later editions?
>>92781612>any indication Maybe the servo arms, the saw thing, the tubes, etc. Blanche has a tumblr that might have it way back.
>>92781587>And there was hardly anything at all mentioned about the Custodes, except that they stayed in the palace.There were two or three long paragraphs dedicated to their appearance, equipment and role. None of them mentioned that they were gene-engineered demigods or even just taller than an average soldier (though they had an impressive statline.)>>92781587If they already had geneseed, progenoids, organ implants and co in mind, they would have presented it in the corebook. There's a crazy amount of detail but that bit is notably absent.>>92781607"my mind" is that the book clearly states only high lords wear red and the admechs wear white (this is depicted even in White Dwarf articles, not just in core), and that this Pontifex Maximus may not be a techpriest at all.
>>92781665Your mind is also that the book clearly states Space Marines are super human but somehow they are not actually super human. Unfuck yourself.
Anyway...
>>92781556Theres those goat heads again, why did they used to make them look ... I dunno .. so Skaven-like?
>>92781533NTA but they've always kinda reminded me of pic related.Honestly given the apparent slapdash kitchen-sink creative process behind RT, it could even be the actual inspiration.
>>92781729TV Licencing detection operatives are working in YOUR area.
>>92781729I love the old 2e metals and 3e plastic termies. So stumpy but I can't see terminators any other way. Shame how the AOBR ones just suck, and the newest ones (while fantastic looking) are xbox hueg
>>92781761Looks cool.
>>92781729Notagrog here. What's the stormbolter on the far left?
>>92781858it's the OG heavy flamer
>>92781858Flammenwerfer, for werfing flammen
>>92781693They were "superhuman" in the hyperbolic sense that any roided up scifi elite soldier is. They weren't towering over regular infantrymen (outside of their armor at least), they didn't have second hearts (their equivalent was a chamber in their armor overclocking/keeping their heart pumping), they didn't have acid spit, they couldn't read memories from eating brains etc. They were basically just Stormtroopers with some augments and better armor.Veterans looked ghastly with all their bionics but that was a pretty typical look for Imperials anyway.
>>92781874>>92781877>still seems to have have double sickle bolter mags >shooting and burning at the same timeKickass.
>>92781889>it only means what it says when it means what I want Okay. What about the admech covered in tubes you ignored? Also not real admech?
>>92781904It's because it's basically a hollow shell with a fuel bottle on the side that covers over the Storm Bolter lel
>>92781889>They were "superhuman" in the hyperbolic sense that any roided up scifi elite soldier is.Baseline space marine stats are already notably better than standard human champion stats. It says they're biochemically and surgically altered. Get over it. They're already specifically described as psychotic warrior monks. They were never basically just Stormtroopers.
>>92781961Oh neat. Makes sense. Thank anon.
>>927817992e termies are peak imo. The original space hulk ones are classic but their details are a bit soft and I don't like the sloped shoulders as much.
>>92782050There's something about the Terminators looking like they've got their shirts tucked into their belts that always makes me smileChaos Termies from that period were great too
>>92781990Those stats were however dogshit, like a beastman was a better soldier flat out.
>>92782127I've slowly been collecting old metal CSM to make a glam-rock emperor's children army and I keep meaning to get those termies because in at least the 2nd and 3.5 edition codices you can have noise marine terminators, which is pretty rad.
>>92782133>Dogshit statsUnclear if you mean better than a regular human or a space marine. Space Marines have better BS, Str, Initiative, Leadership, Intelligence, Cool and Willpower. The only thing the bestman has is Toughness. That's before we get into equipment and armour. Even if you meant the space marine's stats they're still superhuman compared to the regular human.
>>92781540The book clearly states that red os for the Lords Of Terra. So that other anon is correct on this one. Even if the artwork depicts the AdMech dude, it just means that Blanche fucked it up a bit.Either way, personally don't even see why should anyone give any fuck about that particular bit of lore. Use whichever robes you want for your minis, who cares.
>>92782237Oh no I mean in terms of gameplay, they are kinda terrible, because that T 3 means a guardsman is about as good as a marine when it came to shooting. Armor is good sure, but it's still only 4+ save
>>92781944That particular artist just likes stuffing everyone with tubes.There's nothing in the fluff about the AdMechs alluding to them looking more cyborg-y than average imperials, the closest is a bit about low-ranking "technomats" who were practically servitors through electrografts. AdMech description mentions their (white) robes and tonsured heads, nothing about mechadendrites or servo-arms, their weapons are standard knives or laspistols. (Power Axes for example were common for all high ranking Adeptus Terra)It's clear that the artists' depictions influenced expectations for how techpriests should look, but the fluff didn't reflect that at all originally.>>92781990>Baseline space marine stats are already notably better than standard human champion statsThat's not even true, shocklingly. Champions of the Imperial Guard had the same physical stats as marines, including strength or toughness or wounds (but Marines had higher leadership, int etc) Marine major heroes had the EXACT SAME statline as Imperial Guard major heroes. M, WS, BS, S, T, W, I, etc all the same. Compared to guard minor heroes, Marine minor heroes had higher BS and I but not higher S T or W.Rogue Traders for example also had better stats than baseline Marines.A comparison to other "superhumans" is useful here. The fluff insists on how Navigators look barely human, even though they lacked their characteristic third eye mutation back then, how they are "tall and spindly" with "ridiculously large and frequently webbed" hands and feet, "extremely large" featureless eyes and commonly hairless bodies, and on how the Navigator mutation is hereditary and so they're all inbred dynasties. Classic lore of course, but I want to point out that they dedicated a whole section to this but didn't mention anything about geneseed or how physical appearance might differ from regular humans in the Space Marines section. (by the way, navigators could be Space Marines back then)
>>92782371>it doesn't count when I don't want it to all the time If you can't even read the numbers there's no point talking with you. You seem dead set on it being what you want instead of what it says on multiple points.You're a disingenuous shit. >>92782303No, they cherry pick art and wording as it suits while simultaneously pretending their preferences are universally supported. The part to care about it that anon is a liar who wants to be authoritative and got caught. >>92782310Oh ja, humans are kind of terrible. Its the grim darkness of the 41st millennium.
>>92782371Another obvious comparison are Ogryns. According to the core book Ogryns are 2 and a half to 3 meters tall, some are large rotund and flabby while others are large, well-muscled and tough. "Generally their appearance is one of obese stupidity." The book doesn't feel the need to size them up with marines. Statwise they have lower skills and of course lower Ld Int etc, but signficantly higher strength, toughness, wounds and movement than Marines at their respective levels, the rest being mostly the same (including initiative surprisingly)
>>92782597>If you can't even read the numbersI just pointed out that you're the one who didn't read the numbers.>You seem dead set on it being what you want instead of what it saysYour entire argument rests on a single sentence using the word "superhuman", in the entire core book.
>>92782619I've repeatedly pointed out contradictions in your reasoning, evidence and literal fucking numbers between a baseline human and a superhuman. You're an idiot. All you've done is say >nuhuh not like that Get fucked.
>>92782371>AdMech description mentions their (white) robes and tonsured heads, nothing about mechadendrites or servo-arms, their weapons are standard knives or laspistols.I always assumed that the early conception for the admech was basically just stealing The Foundation and putting them into 40k. Specifically from the period in the first book where they form a pseudo-religion to hoard access to technology.I'm also pretty certain this was the inspiration for ComStar in battletech.
Have they ever released a WD or anything detailing how they painted lamenters back then? Practicing my lamenters scheme before I start on my old metal dudes.
>>92782718I've given you a detailed comparison of Space Marine and Imperial Guard (Imperial Army) statlines at various power levels, pointing out that they do not actually have superhuman physical skills (with a further comparison to the actually superhuman/subhuman Ogryn.)By the way, Arbites also have the same physical statline as Marines (or human champions.) Custodes actually have better stats as befits elites, but they're still weaker than even Marine or Guard minor heroes (and have lower strength, toughness, wounds, movement than Ogryns).You've merely claimed that Space Marine statlines are better than baseline human champions.
>>92782800That's very likely, 40k is heavily inspired by the Foundation series.Of course it may have just been a need to have "wizards in space", a lot of early 40k was just trying to do Fantasy in Space.
>>92782965A final comparison, the similarly transhuman assassin, fresh out of training.Higher BS and WS, toughness, wounds, initiative and attacks than common marines, lower nothing. That's right, the assassin induction process produces strictly better killers.Marine minor Heroes have higher WS BS and I, also Ld Int etc (they're veterans) but otherwise have the same stats (S T W) as our human assassin.Marine major heroes (chapter masters and equivalent) do have an extra wound and attack, but again so Guard major heroes.
>>92782177Did they have miniatures for all the Noise weapons? IIRC, there were a a couple of weapons that never had corresponding minis. I think people didn't twig at first because the weapons used to be random in blisters.
>>92782127I love that they don't have loincloths.
>>92783280They don't but I was planning to just convert/kitbash. Maybe find some 3d printed bits idk
>>92783310Sounds cool. I think either puppetswar or kromlech have a set of noise weapons. It a similar company, I'm having a look.
SoWhat's a good brand or type of felt for tabletop wargames? I want something that's not too fluffy, something I can spray paint, and for cheap.For example, I wanna buy a roll that gives me 4 feet by 8 feet of green short hair felt that I can spray brown and dark green on to make it look like grass.
>>92783979honestly if you're just buying felt by the metre from cloth supply shops it's gonna be more or less the same wherever you go.Pool table felt is a bit softer but a lot more expensive and I have no idea how well it would take paint.
>>92781220>Space Marines weren't gene-engineered superhumans
>>92782921I don't think so but I've been on a kick of reading old white dwarfs so if I see one I'll post it in /grog/ shoulder pattern and icon looks bloody great there, especially on that terminator, very clean
>>92783191It's disingenuous to compare hero stats because they are explicitly super-human - the fact that an IG major hero and SM major hero have the same stats is meaningless, their statlines reflect what a "major hero" looks like - an individual that represents the absolute limits of human ability. >>92783191Comparing them to assassins is even more bonkers, in case you don't remember, this is what the statline for an imperial assassin in 2E looks like - even after the modern SM were firmly embedded in the lore assassins crapped all over them.
>>92753891Kae, get your cringe out of my oldhammer. You crossdressing faggot
>>92782921>Have they ever released a WD or anything detailing how they painted lamenters back then?WD 101.
>>92782921I remember Stuart Thomas talking about one he painted around the start of 2E>Finally, we have a plastic Space Marine, of the Lamenters Chapter, from the second edition 40k boxed set, I believe. Now, I think this one may have been done to illustrate a different chapter colour scheme for the Ultramarines Codex but, again, I'm not 100% sure on that. What I do know is this was done specifically to find a better way of painting yellow, without actually using any yellow paint. I find it difficult to understand the nostalgia around the old paints from the late 80's, early 90's. They were often a nightmare to work with, with a lot of the colours have very poor coverage and strength of pigment. Red was one particularly bad colour, but yellow was worse. This Marine was painted by using Hobgoblin Orange, highlighted to white and then glazed with yellow ink (the inks of that time, known as the Expert Paint Set, being the only paints from that era that were really outstanding) then finished off with sepia ink in the deepest shadows. This is basically the method I use for painting yellow to this day, even with the far superior paints that are available now.
This is oddly specific, but does anyone else "regret" how they've assembled their old Tactical Marines?Like I'm talking about the 1998-onwards Tactical boxes, that have since come with a mixture of mostly mk6 and mk7 parts, and other odd pieces.As a kid I just slapped together any legs with any torsos and helmets, rather than using the knee-less legs with the more mk6-looking torsos and beaky helmets. But it would be too much work to disassemble them to sate this autism.tbf I think GW themselves just mixed and matched at the time. This was before all the armour mark autism that nuHH has inflicted upon us
>>92788209Looking back I probably didn't even match up the right arms. And I didn't cut the pistol grips off the bolters so the hand would fit lelDidn't realise they'd recut the sprue itself after 1998 (when you just got a Flamer and Missile Launcher) and like 2005 ("old" in this pic) before the total re-sculpt around 2012ish (new in pic), I just thought it was a new upgrade sprue that had plastic meltaguns and stuff
>>92788209>>92788227I don't really regret how I built my old marines, I mixed up chest, helmets and legs as I liked, but I did always love the beakie helmets the most of any of them. It was after the Index Astartes articles that I started paying more attention to it, would match the mk. 6 pieces together when I'd get new sets for my, at the time, space wolves.
>>92788035Yellow paints in general were a fucking pain in the arse to work with. Another trick of the time was to use Dwarf Flesh as the base coat and then layer yellow paint over that, a friend of mine did his Imperial Fists that way to get a warm, rich yellow colour and it worked very well. Also worked for the reds. And this went for the paints well into the bolter shell pots era into the early 2000s. Then eventually Foundation paints (and other non-citadel alternatives) came along, thank fuck. The Foundation paints (just super high pigment stuff meant for undercoat layers really) for red and yellow were an absolute godsend to those of us who suffered through those first generations.Even now though I still tend to use yellow ochre and yellow ink heavily when working with yellows rather than straight yellow paint though due to the trauma of having to deal with those old paints way back. Old habits eh.>>92788209Not so much the tactical marines, they did specifically make them mix&match because armour parts were supposed to be interchangeable. But on a related note my soldiers of the empire plastic models that came out in 5th edition fantasy, fuck I wish I had an osprey on Landsknects to hand before I started building a few sets of those so I knew what the all the bits were; got tassets not attached to breastplates, things the wrong way round and shit like that, and so many broken halberds (really should have replaced the whole lot with brass rod, or just built them as swordsmen).Still there was one absolute legend of a kid I do remember way back in 2nd edition 40k who tried to stick the ENTIRE assault weapons sprue contents to a SINGLE assault marine. He almost managed it.
>>92788209>tbf I think GW themselves just mixed and matched at the time.It's by design. Even on the sprues they're all mixed up. Like the bottom left one in your pic, with >MkVI legs>MkV torso>MkVII headMixing and matching to get a good amount of variety while still maintaining a cohesive look across the unit was a big part of the design ethos behind the plastic kits from that era, for both 40k and Fantasy (where it's especially effective in making your big blocks of infantry look more 'alive')
>>92788209>This was before all the armour mark autism that nuHH has inflicted upon us??It was all 1st ed lore bruh
>>92786232>>92787996>>92788035Thanks for the help frens, shame theres not more but then again yellow changed very little it seems. contrast does help though
>>92788945yellows not so bad.. ive found averland sunset base with a light brown was from army painter (soft tone) works well, highlight with adding white or a brighter yellow to mix
>>92788334I want that sprue. I found some old plastic chaos bolt guns/pistols and and old plasma pistol the other day, and they fit my necro I minis.
>>92789156BlackMarketMinis offers them, along with the regular arm and bolter sprues. A bit pricey (~£11 each), but less than you're likely to pay for an actual secondhand set, and BMM have pretty solid casting quality
>>92789156They've definitely been scanned and are available for 3d printing, for another option, if you can find them.
>>92789562Wonder if a right hand power fist like that one exist.
>>92789986If you get hold of one of the 3d scans you can just mirror it
>>92789562You have had success with BMM? I made an order with them a couple years ago. They took my money and never shipped an order. Never responded to any emails I sent them.
>>92748319I advise using Vallejo texture paints for bases. It has glue and sane beat by a mile. I use Black Lava before I prime my minis. Then I can add assorted rocks, skulls, and grass tufts after painting it.
>>92790122I've bought some old FW stuff from them in the past, pauldrons and Rhino doors and the like, and had pretty good results>a couple years ago.Might that have been around the start of the *ahem* ongoing incident *ahem* in Eastern Europe? They're based out of Russia after all, and I know they had a hell of a time trying to get around a lot of the resulting issues
>>92790122Never had any issues with them, they even replaced one lost package. Such a great quality recasts. And yeah they had trouble last couple years but since they moved countries, it's all good now.
>>92788945White primer -> pink ink wash -> white zenithal spray -> yellow ink/contrast washGives a nice yellow super easily. Only real drawback is that it's not very quick since the ink steps take a while to dry. Vallejo's nuclear yellow is my go-to.
>>92749979>>92749973>>92749958>>92749949>>92749929These ungrateful swine don’t appreciate you, anon, but I do.
>>92755594This is increasingly a problem with a lot of creative media though imo - especially anything with a long pedigree (star wars, capeshit, warhammer). The genre or property was originally established by people with a wide array of influences, often classical, so they actually understood where the stuff they were making came from and adapted those influences to create something, if not original, then with an interesting new take. These days a huge number of upcoming creatives (especially those willing to work for shitty companies like gw & Disney) have grown up only consuming these properties without any study of or understanding of what they are based on and what makes truly underpins them and made them appealing in the first place. It’s like when AI scrapes too much output from itself, it ends up in a degrading quality loop of endless derivation. Shit’s fucky
>>92758011That would be fucking stellar.
>>92765646>the only real part I'm not mad keen on is how the House Gangs now function really as a paramilitary force of the Hive City houses directly rather than it just being "bum fights in the Underhive You say that like it doesn’t completely undermine and invalidate the entire appeal of the original game.
>>92789156>>92789600grab this and don't ask any questionsaHR0cHM6Ly9tZWdhLm56L2ZpbGUvOFg0VEdMd0IjUW42MVJma3U2ZV94amw3TWc0eHpDaWotUjhQRjhFQUlrVkY5QldLOFhkUQ==
>>92791010>It’s like when AI scrapes too much output from itselfNow I'm curious what nightmares that would result in.
>>92792399There's Facebook pages that seem to be entirely AI-driven. Like the prompts for the image are based on past successful posts to the nth degree.It's mostly bots liking their posts too, but there's some boomers in there too. Dead Internet Theory eh.Hellish.
>>92792537For some reason one got stuck on the phrase "beautiful cabin crew" receiving lots of likes so now it just pumps out stuff like this.
>>92791010You're completely right; I'd only add that this isn't a new phenomena, though. I like this quote from Leigh Brackett on the western:Every once in a while I go back and read a little Western history, which is a marvellous corrective. Hollywood has created a totally mythic West, which never existed on land or sea. The whole concept of the hero, I think, began with Owen Wister's The Virginian, more or less. Ever since, there's been a too great feeding on oneself. When you utilize the same elements over and over, you finally begin to turn out excrement. The trouble is we've gotten away from what actually happened in the West. I wish that somebody would just read a little history. The pioneers were hardworking people who worked like mad to scratch to stay in one place. It was a hard, cruel country out there. These were heroes in a different sense, because they fought however they could to hold onto what they had. They didn't worry about who drew first. They just went up from behind with a shotgun. The idea was: "Don't get killed yourself—kill him."
>>92790240Where did they move to?
>>92790122>Never responded to any emails I sent them.Weird they respond to me, you know there are two BMMs? The .su one was the one I've dealt with, but I find them too pricey even thought they are top quality
>>92788209>>92788227>>92788309>>92788334>>92788462>>92788876Damn, some fake nu-heresy takes here. 40k marine armour is not meant to be, except in rare cases, completely uniform single marks. They're supposed to be mismatched, mixed relics from a forgotten age. The only case for uniformity is that most chapters armouries would have majority mk7 as the basis.
>>92770650Fuck me I remember that page!3E SM codex?
>>92792537>>92792540I love how AI is quickly killing itself.
>>92795144Let's hope it's a quick death before it radically degrades our art and culture.People out there right now that genuinely believe AI art stuff is great.My friend listens to AI plankton screamo and introduced me to some documentary fiction about vegetable people waging wars with each other that used AI to illustrate.
>>92791228What is that? Its not a torrent hash or mega folder.
>>92796346Its Based, like nintendo 64
>>92796346>he doesn’t know
Were the Imperial Armour books and Chapter Approved '02 to '04 tomes ever translated to other languajes? I'm trying to gather all codexes and books from 3rd and 4th in spanish for my local playgroup, but I can't find anything about them.
>>92797153I don't think they ever were, anon. If I had to speculate on why I reckon that the Gorkamorka flop scarred them from making multiple language editions of specialist publications.
>>92797606Shame. I don't mind the IA books too much since I got fanmade Appendix with every specialist unit listed on them, but the CA tomes with their special armies are a bigger loss.
>>92797153>>92797761Where do you live, friend? If you're from around Barcelona I'm down for a game. As for the translations:>Imperial ArmourNope.>Chapter ApprovedYeah, but they were titled "Ordo Malleus Dixit" instead of Chapter Approved, maybe that's why you don't find them. I've got the third one on paper, but no pdfs. If you're looking for a particular article, you can always get it from White Dwarf in any case.
Mostly done my marine side of battle at the farm. I want to practice the markings on some spare shoulders before I actually do them on the minis.I did the right hands red on this batch instead of left by mistake, but decided to keep them. I want to expand them for Jadeberry Hill, so when I do I'll repaint one to make room for the flamer and have two tactical squads differentiated by fists.
>>92799692And the Orks I've done so far. Didn't realise I'd given them the gun from the 2nd ed grots until I'd assembled all 20 of them.
>>92799736
>>92799692>>92799736>>92799745Aaawww yiiiss now this is great stuff
>>92799692Niiiiice!
>>92799692Are those the astrochad stls?
>>92799371>If you're from around Barcelona I'm down for a gameSorry fren, I'm from a town south of Córdoba. We're quite far away I'm afraid.>they were titled "Ordo Malleus Dixit" instead of Chapter ApprovedShoot, I had no idea. Thanks for the info!
>>92800370Yes.
>>92796488Thanks. Where might you find more of these old sprue scans?
>>92791038>>92790908When I get a few more books done I'll throw up a Mega folder that I'll toss them all and new ones into when the mood takes me to work through some more.
What book is this from? The blog I read said he referred to WD 129 but it wasn't in there. I think I saw it before in the RT Compendium?
>>92801824
for the anon asking about this skeleton looking dude
>>92801858Cool, thanks! I'm trying to figure out how to paint ranks on Howling Griffons. A red helmet won't stand out too much with them lol, nor would a red skull!
>>92801966The classic one by Fred Reed used blue as an accent colour. It's a bit garish, but it definitely stands out on the table
Mods are asleep, post Freebooterz!
>>92802250
>>92802250>Freebooterz
>>92801966Using blue helmets like in >>92801997 is probably the right choice.RT went through a couple of different marine marking systems though, so here's a bunch of reference pics https://gofile.io/d/E1Y3B5The style from 2E onwards shows up at the end in the run-up to its release, but for that you should just use the codex.
Just finished this Predator
>>92802677Don't you mean freebooter looted tank?
>>92802624How did you do the ork buildings? I should craft couple of those too
>>92805780Here anon
>>92806080Got any more things like that?
>>92802380Have artists these days genuinely lost the ability to paint like this? Genuinely, the old masters used to have apprentices to continue their styles; will we ever see art like this again?
>>92806170Here's one of the folders in my mega archive, it's as many of the white dwarfs with the Modelling Workshop articles as I could find.https://mega.nz/folder/VfoBVC6T#-nY9HwR_4OfzMNQ3iBut9w
>>92806437Yes, same goes for sculpting, painting and modelling in general. Who knew bottle necking technology and resources allowed more creativity and innovation. We advanced too fast to keep up, do forgot so much by learning even more.
>>92802677Mantis! You got any double powerfist guys?
>>92806437Answer is, capitalism, it doesn't really pay to do this as an artist, basically...no joke, you kinda need the weird shit USSR did, where you pay a lot to artists to just make art, for the hell of it, it seems to help a lot.
>>92807146Before anyone will jump onto it - because I'm pretty sure it will happen - here's the thing: USSR did have huge troubles with censorship, yes, but overall the approach was indeed correct and allowed for quite an amazing artwork, even if within the bounds of government's demands.Like, who the hell will do portraits of random workers and students in capitalism? I only saw that kind of art in Soviet Union.
>>92807146Pretty sure art grants exist in the west. I assume they're all just nepotism scams that fund garbage, but they exist.
>>92807515Nope, only I think Iceland does those.
>>92807234Ya, I will shit on USSR for a log of things, but they did do three things right, trolleybuses (those things are great), comblocks (you do need to fix all the bits that were stolen in the factory) and art payment, they got worse during stalin, but ya, some of the cartoons made under soviet funding, real good shit.Probably some of the best depictions of greek mythology around to this day in movie form.
